Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
jaceiondale, NEOHIO, TxMudbug, VinniR333, VENUS GIRL
17,521 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,284
Posts533,597
Members17,521
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,944
ewest 20,785
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,882
Who's Online Now
12 members (anthropic, ninety6, canyoncreek, Pat Williamson, RStringer, Drago, HTNFSH2, highflyer, Quarter Acre, gehajake, Scott E, Snakebite), 261 guests, and 123 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
Got a quote from a different contractor @ $1.65 to $1.85 a cu yard. Calculations are 10,000 cu yards of dirt build the levy. As I get closer to doin the project I will talk about fish cover and will post pics of the project. We are planning on staying in a travel trailer during the whole process with my Wife and kids.....cant wait.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,026
Likes: 48
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,026
Likes: 48
How do they know/measure cubic yards?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 910
K
Offline
K
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 910
That is a cube 3x3 ft. That is a cheap price compared to this area. It must be pretty steep land. To dig a 13 acre pond here, it is in the millions of yards but it is flat. You would have a big pond for a very small price. Good luck.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,785
Likes: 88
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,785
Likes: 88
I have a suggestion due to the issues raised so far. Call Mike Otto for a consult (http://www.ottosdirtservice.com , mikeotto@ottosdirtservice.com 1-800-882-3478 ). There are things you have not even thought about. Making larger water bodies /lakes is a once in 4 generations event. That is how far out you should be thinking - creatively - about what you want. Mike can also look over bids to help you be sure they are what you think. BTW Mike and Bob wrote the book.
















Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,205
Likes: 10
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,205
Likes: 10
Here's some more tips. Projections suggest the dirt moving will cost something less than $20,000. Knowing that area, I believe it. Advice/tip #1: Budget $25,000 for building the dam. There are almost always "unknowns" when a bulldozer starts moving dirt. Expect it, even in areas of such good soil as what you have.
Tip #2: As soon as you can, with a laser level/transit, whatever you can get, shoot and flag the water line all the way around the lake site.
Tip #3: Visualize the lake as a horizontal plane and judge its configuration, shape and the amount of shallow water you have. Shallow water = lots of maintenance issues. If you have more than 5% of the periphery that will be less than 3 feet deep, you'll have aquatic plant issues that will be frustrating. Now is the time to identify that and do something about it. (Unless aquatic plants for waterfowl is part of the plan...if it is, plan for it now.)
Tip #4: Keep in mind that your earthmover is focused on his primary job...building a structure that is engineered and designed to impound water, retain water and release excess water in an orderly fashion. In other words, he's in charge of building a dam and spillway sufficient to manage water. Inside that dam will be a living, breathing entity that we be your "lake". That's a totally different mission.
Tip #5: Knowing that you have two missions, building a dam and building a lake, focus time and energy designing habitat based on your goals. If you don't several years down the road you'l wish you did. If you need help designing that habitat, ask those who know...do that during this planning phase. If your mission is to create a bass lake, learn all you can about bass habitat and what the forage fish need to support the bass, too. Create habitat for ALL species you wish to manage or attract.
Tip #6: There is a lot more to learn, based on your overall goals. Seek advice about those other goals. Know the region of the world. Des Arc is rice country, not far from a river, right in the midst of a major flyway of waterfowl, both beneficial and invasive birds such as cormorants. Design your lake with these factors in mind, too.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
Lot of good advice listed above, especially Ewest and Bob, you have to look down the road with this type of project.

I do this kind of work across the River and from what you have mentioned so far there are a few red flags, most of which have been mentioned and include:
1) lack of overall design including shoreline depth and topography plus total yardage; 2) no mention of watershed size which dictates outlet requirements; 3) no specific design on water control structure or emergency spillway; 4) no specifications on interior/exterior side slope requirements; 5) no minimum levee top criteria; 6) has a test pit been dug, are you excavating to a clayey or sandy soil? The list goes on...

If YOU are going to be the "contractor" for this build, you need answers to all the above plus more. The levee design and yardage is easy, we do it every day from an RTK survey or LIDAR data.

Where the dam will sit is at 195' elevation. The top of my property is 200'. The dam will be 6' with 2' of freeboard. From grade we are going down 4' for a total of 8' deep.

Your holding water within 1 ft of your neighbor, given a 100 year rain event will the outlet capacity prevent flooding on your neighbor’s property? Do you have an engineered design stating that? Do you have a dam permit (if required)?

Your prices on moving dirt are in line with going rate, but where are your design specifications? Is this a "guesstimate" of time or yardage? If so add 25%.

Forget the corrugated pipe if you have any agricultural runoff, especially rice. Single wall corrugated is good for 10-15 years in that situation, we replace it every day. Double wall is better but a pain in the butt to fool with and not as good as steel. Used steel pipe is reasonably priced and will last MUCH longer.

After moving dirt pull soil samples for lime requirements, consider pier/dock construction and gravel structure placement. This of course is in addition to overall depth and contour...

Many factors to consider but, do it right and do it once. The second time costs a WHOLE lot more. Your contractor may be good to go, but you need:
1. Solid levee design including total yardage with defined side slopes
2. Overflow AND emergency spillway design
3. Benthic profile of the finished product.

Good luck!

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
Back of napkin figuring here but 2,000 ft of levee at 6 ft tall and 3:1 side slopes with 20% compaction is 16,000 yards. At $1.65/yd your at $26,400 just in levee construction

At a 2:1 side slope with 20% compaction you are at 12,800 yards, times $1.65 equals $21,120.

Obviously if you are tying in to two existing ridges the average levee height will be less than 6 ft and yardage will decrease, but can you quantify that?

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
F
Offline
F
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,315
Originally Posted By: Dan Prevost

Forget the corrugated pipe if you have any agricultural runoff, especially rice. Single wall corrugated is good for 10-15 years in that situation, we replace it every day. Double wall is better but a pain in the butt to fool with and not as good as steel. Used steel pipe is reasonably priced and will last MUCH longer.



DAN- Just curious as to why the corrugated pipe is bad with rice. Is there a chemical reaction between the two?

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 2
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 2
Originally Posted By: fish n chips
Originally Posted By: Dan Prevost

Forget the corrugated pipe if you have any agricultural runoff, especially rice. Single wall corrugated is good for 10-15 years in that situation, we replace it every day. Double wall is better but a pain in the butt to fool with and not as good as steel. Used steel pipe is reasonably priced and will last MUCH longer.



DAN- Just curious as to why the corrugated pipe is bad with rice. Is there a chemical reaction between the two?



I imagine the runoff containing fertilizer and other chemicals are very corrosive. I know fertilizer is from working on grain drills.

We use used steel for our pipes.

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 143
D
Offline
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 143
Corrugated pipe is very thin compared to steel pipe. Check your local salvage yards. I purchased my 24" oil line pipe from a scrap metal yard for .20 cents on the dollar compared to buying new. You will have the added expense of hiring a welder but atleast you know at that point that it should last the rest of our life time or close atleast. How much water shed are you anticipating?

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
O
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
O
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,074
Lots of great advice.

I think there is as a lot of fun and great memories mad in the planning stages of the lake.

Listen to what the BIG DOG (BOB LUSK) said. This is a place to enjoy think of it that way, plan it that way, build it that way. This is a project that will be there long after you are gone. Think of it in those terms.

Do not get in to big of a hurry, planning is the key to success and a lot fun. Part of the plan needs to be PLAN TO MAKE CHANGES .
The conditions will change and as you go along you will see new things that you did not think about.

USE PLASTIC PIPE. Or aluminum or concrete or thick wall steel.
otto

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,026
Likes: 48
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,026
Likes: 48
Also, make sure you want to alter nature. You can't undo it.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
D
Offline
D
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 19
Originally Posted By: fish n chips
Originally Posted By: Dan Prevost

Forget the corrugated pipe if you have any agricultural runoff, especially rice. Single wall corrugated is good for 10-15 years in that situation, we replace it every day. Double wall is better but a pain in the butt to fool with and not as good as steel. Used steel pipe is reasonably priced and will last MUCH longer.



DAN- Just curious as to why the corrugated pipe is bad with rice. Is there a chemical reaction between the two?



I'm guessing it's the high nitrogen that eats the bottom out of the pipes....

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
The NRCS calculated at least 60 acres of watershed runnin through the draw.

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19
The contractors that I have gotten these quotes from are part of the same family that constructed my grandpas lake in 1960. The 13 acre lake is still in tact today. Its close by my proposed lakesite and is my inspiration for doing what im doing. You can view the lake on google maps under (Keathley Pond, Des Arc Ar). I have actually been screening all of my quotes and ideas through the gentleman who at 20 years old operated the buldozer along with his father to construct my grandpas in 1960. He is now 73 years old. I really appreciate this site and all of you guys constructive criticizm, im havin alot of fun with this.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,785
Likes: 88
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,785
Likes: 88
Good post Dan - well done with lots of info and appropriate suggestions.
















Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
CSafrit, FamilyTradition
Recent Posts
Minnow Species Id Help
by canyoncreek - 11/29/21 02:51 PM
New Old Pond v3
by Pat Williamson - 11/29/21 02:44 PM
Vegetarian Yellow-perch.
by Scott E - 11/29/21 01:34 PM
Alternative to Bass & Sunfish (CC & YP?)
by Scott E - 11/29/21 01:22 PM
Trespassers be warned
by ewest - 11/29/21 11:09 AM
I Have A Poacher…
by RAH - 11/29/21 10:28 AM
Lbs of Alum to Dissolve in 200 Gallons?
by Humminbird Cente - 11/29/21 09:59 AM
Old new pond... new user
by HTNFSH2 - 11/29/21 08:58 AM
to aerate or leave well enough alone!
by esshup - 11/29/21 01:13 AM
Large Pond Excavation
by TxMudbug - 11/28/21 08:14 PM
aerators and cormorants
by TGW1 - 11/28/21 09:20 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
New Old Pond v3
New Old Pond v3
by HTNFSH2, November 19
Tilapia indoors and out
Tilapia indoors and out
by highflyer, September 29
Naiad vs chara?
Naiad vs chara?
by marlin304, September 26
spreading bentonite
spreading bentonite
by Guppy1, September 20
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
by Stressless, September 1
pondr 5a
pondr 5a
by Stressless, August 18

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5