Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Pond expansion and dam question

I have a 1/2 acre pond in grayson county texas that I am wanting to expand. Previous owner of property owned heavy equipment and started to dig out area next to pond about 60x50ft and left a "dam" in between pond and this spot, then stopped work. I had a dozer contractor come out. We discussed him using trackhoe to dig out dam wall and using dozer to extend pond out about another 100ft. He gave me a price of 3800.00. I know detaills are vague but does this sound about right. I had talked to someone before about just removing the "dam" between the two ponds and was quoted 1500.00. So that is 2300 for extended pond. Also the real dam has 3 or 4 cedar trees growing on it that are about 10-12 ft tall. Should I remove these? Will the rotted roots cause a leak? Soil is clay. thanks for any help.

if nobody else said it, welcome to PB armadillophil.

Usual rates for equip. and operators in my neck of woods runs from ~85 to 105/hr plus mob charges. ask him how long he thinks it'l take. based on $3800, i'd say he's planning a week for the job, if he thinks it'l only take a couple days, he's high, and yer getting rooked.

are the trees on the water side? my recommendation is usually to remove all trees on a dam. at 10-12 feet tall, in my estimation, the roots wont have grown enough to do significant damage after rotting.

I would get a second opinion/bid.

armadillophil,

The estimate sounds on the high side to me, but it is very difficult to get heavy equipment operators to take a small job in my area because of the demand for their services. Simply put, they can make a lot more money on large jobs. For example, just to get a track-hoe to my property line is $500 and that assumes their will be lots of work and revenue for it once it gets there.

A second estimate might be helpful. Money is certainly critical, but just as much so is the quality of the folks doing the work. Be sure to check references on anyone you contract with on the pond.

Yes, I would remove the cedar trees while getting the work done...a track-hoe can have those out, roots and all, quicker than an armadillo can root up a rose garden.

I took the good advice and had 2 more contractors come out on monday to give bids on jobs. 1st guy was very knowledgable and his bid included draining small pond and cleaning it out of all the mud, clearing trees off dam, and using dirt from pond expansion to add to back of dam to correct the slope which is almost vertical now to a 4 to 1 slope. His bid came in at 6000.00 2nd guy didnt own equipment but rented it and his bid was 8700.00 yikes!!!!

I don't know, arma, what your best choice is. However, let me relate a bit of what's happened at our place.

First pond...within budget, but it took the guy about 6 weeks to finish up, with equipment breakdowns, pulling out to other (necessary?) jobs, etc. However, in the end, the job he did was gorgeous, and he really bent over backwards to please me, so I let him bid on the second pond. He bid $12,900, all told.

I also had another fella bid on that same second pond and he quoted a bit over $10,000. I went with him and he brought in brand new machinery, and was done in 4 days. (I AM just a bit impatient...)

However...here's where it's a bit sticky. I don't really appreciate (especially now, 18 months later) how he dug in the overflow after the fact. The center of the dam's settled about 12"...as he "expected"..but I didn't. Not life-threatening, but bothersome and VERY noticeable, even from the house, 150 yards away.

In addition, VERY little black soil was spread over the dam face or the knob closest to the house. I will probably fight to get a decent stand of grass for years. He also went out maybe 5 feet at about 4:1 slope, at which point the pond becomes a "pit". He left quite a bit of good, rich topsoil inside the water line...a big no-no in my mind...that turns into silt. I've spend a couple hundred in fuel and shortened the life of my very old 560 Farmall quite a bit by moving some of this soil to other places on my own.

I was traveling for work the week he completed this project. Wish I'd have been home. Long story short...cheapest ain't always best, by a long shot. This newest hole will hold water, but I got my money's worth...just, and not ONE CENT more. I didn't get screwed, it's just that the first old guy was a "Pond Builder" (his title) and the second was a dirt mover...that could make a hole hold water.

Food for thought. Worth exactly what I charge...and not ONE CENT MORE.

I don't think it's necessarily bad to leave top dirt in the pond. It will improve the natural fertility from what I understand. I agree not to go with the lowest bid. Also, you'll generally get better bids if you let everyone know they have competition.

That sounds logical; whether or not it's a good idea probably varies from location to location dependent on local soil and watershed condition.

Well, in my case, the black topsoil is upwards of 3 feet deep in 2 areas...that's a waste of good soil, and over the past 18 months, if I'd not removed some of it, it would have ended up in the bottom of the pond, due to erosion. Some already has, but I built a small dike to capture the majority of what I've not had time to remove. I've no problem with fertility (I'm in Iowa).

It's generally considered good practice up here to remove the majority of topsoil within the waterline for both reasons. Of course, I learned this from NRCS and the first pond builder...and wasn't around to enforce that issue with the second. It wasn't specifically covered in the contract, so I just lived and learned. :rolleyes:

matt, i'm also an iowa pond guy
currently making 5 acre pond in south central iowa
near osceola
i know a good pond builder if u need one!

Thanks, Iowa...but my pond building days are finished...for now.

However...Old Man Redlinger wants me to eventually by a small dozer and he'll build me a third pond, near the road. Smaller, maybe .5 acres, but plenty of runoff.

We'll see...

Matt, I might consider the buying a dozer real carefully. In the 25 or so years that I've owned my place, I've had 8 or 10 dozers doing work. Only one of them has NOT had a breakdown of some kind.

If you ever have to put a track back on a dozer, you'll never own one. One time ought to be enough for you to hate anything colored yellow. The problem I have is that I can't afford anything that isn't worn out and doesn't break down.

Oh, I know all about that part of it...Redlinger's a heavy equipment operator and he's told me many stories of working on "junk". I also watched my first pond builder fight his ancient, steam and coal fired (kidding) D8...

IF and when that happens, I'll spend decent money to buy something that would (hopefully) last a while. It's not something I'd jump into lightly, but thanks for the heads-up.

Any work I've hired done I've paid by the day/hour. Find out how much a contractor charges per day and about how many days it will take. Make sure he's working hard and then see how far you get in the number of days you planned. Usually you can ask him to work longer if you don't like how much got done in that time. I avoid paying any landscape projects by the job because it is almost impossible to communicate everything you want done and have someone else interpret it right the first time. If someone tells you a project will take 3 days just make sure you budget for 4 days cause chances are you'll want something done different after he thinks he's done. I've had guys bid the job and then told them I changed my mind and just want to hire them by the hour. When all was said and done I got the job done cheaper then their first bid. It may not be because they are dishonest but just because they know too that when they bid by the job they gotta figure a little high because they may end up doing a few things over that you don't like. Most guys around here are happy to do it by the day/hour. They know you'll be happier when they are done and they'll get paid for everything they do. It's the fairest to both parties.

Unfortunately, if I'd hired first pond builder by the hour...I'd have had to take a second mortgage out to pay him off...

I have picked a contractor and and he will start in about two weeks. Here is a link to some pictures of the project.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v509/dodge6/pond/

Great to hear, Arma...won't be long, now, eh? Hope the rains hold of just long enough for you to finish, and you have to race to get new structure in place as the water rises!