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ewest #304512 08/26/12 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: ewest
Bruce have you been looking in on my brain (thoughts/ideas)?


Why? Did you have similar thoughts? So far it seems to be working great, but there's no way if there's a measurable improvement in growth rates. Seems like calories, in the form of fish oil would have a hard time hurting anything. There's also gelatin, and soy in the tablets I'm currently feeding.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Sorry, been running about with family events and school. Didn't have a chance to see this post among the posts.

Originally Posted By: JKB
Other than the soft gel's may not be so soft as you think and all the goodies may be going to waste. Digestive tract and absorption of said soft gel's into the said fish may be a time constraint issue.

The other thing with Omega 3's is that if they get over a certain temperature, they are no good any more. IIRC it is somewhere in the 80F range. When my dog had cancer, I was trying to source some guaranteed fresh, if you will, Omega 3 fish oil. Closest I got was a local pet shop that kept it refrigerated. Boy, does that stuff stink! And it don't wash out of clothing either!


JKB is smacked dead on this one. Soft gel requires time to dissolve, not at 80°, but actually at 97° in a liquid environment in X hours, based on the studies done by the nutritionists panel when they designed various gel type for the pharmaceutical grade capsules. The gel was designed to break down rapidly in high temp environment with certain acid concentration, such as your stomach, but to retain their structural shape in various humid storage and shipment environment. Once acid is introduced, it will only take less than 2 minutes to fully dissolve. The fish's stomach doesn't have the high volume of acid to break the capsule size designed for human. However, the holding time inside the fish stomach to digest is very long, at high low concentrated pH. Unfortunately, the temperature factor also now come into play. Once again, the gel designed for human's stomach, not pets nor fish, at high temp, and low pH exposure.

As for the concentrated fish oil, nothing wrong with that. It's fish oil extract for human consumption. The oil gone through quite a bit of processing, removing the essential "raw" lipids and amino acids that are needed by the fish. As human, we cook our fish, and only benefit about 25% of the amino acids and lipids derived from the cooked fish. This is why Japanese love their raw fish. For pets and fish, the reason why the fish oil required refrigeration is because oil is in its near "raw" form (85% after processing). That's why it stinks to high heaven. Have you ever think of incorporating flax seed oil instead? Less mess, same concentration, no stench.

Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
...and it's anchovy!

My equation goes something like this:

6-inch FEEDER BLUEGILL + 3 SOFTGEL TABS OF OMEGA-3 = RAINBOW TROUT

smile

...and with a simple hemostat, the softgel tabs go down real easy.


Buying dried anchovie and mixed together with dried krill/shrimps, along with dried seaweed, and make them into pellets, would be the best ideal to promote heart healthy amino acids and lipids for fish's diets. Wish I have the pellet's making machine to incorporate it all for you. Alas, having a family and doing experiments can be counter productive, especially living in California.

Last edited by Leo Nguyen; 08/26/12 01:43 PM.

Leo

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Freaks.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #304567 08/26/12 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sunil
Freaks.


If you only knew some of the things that I don't admit to..


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I've tried fish oil as an attractant on foam flies. It is/was the OTC ones. It has been the only thing I've found that turned the fish off. They wouldn't touch it.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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"...but I'm not trying to prevent heart disease. I'm trying to augment the caloric intake of fish. If it's calories, and it's in a form that can be converted by the LMB, then it's better to use the cheaper alternative."




Fat or oil is the most caloric dense 9-10cal/gm, depending on who you read. I have not gone the Healthy Organic route, but I give the BG in my retention pond the waste fat & oil from the kitchen that I have. The fat off beef & pork cooked or uncooked, is always fought over & quickly consumed. The oil from fried fish or chicken, I pour over dry fish food & let it soak in before hand feeding it to the BG. it leaves a bit of a oil sheen on the water.

I have wondered about the cost & value of large pieces of beef fat run through a grinder & fed as a high energy supplement? It would be a poor value if the BG were not getting some natural food & dry food as another supplement.

The BIG experiment: If I good get hold of a large supply of BACON GREASE & pour that over their dry food before feeding them.

What would that fried BG fish sandwich taste like with lettuce, tomato, & Mayo?

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You could poke a hole in the gell cap just prior to stuffing it(assuming you are stuffing into the stomach of the BG)........
Give it a good squeeze once it is in and release the gell..

Or use a needle and syringe it out and inject into the the BG....

Last edited by BobbyRice; 08/28/12 08:55 AM.

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Friends and I have tried beef fat for chum and catfish bait. I'd have to say that the fish, and even the snapping turtle avoided it.

I've used punctured fish oil to "flavor" catfish bait, made with ground fish pellets and flour. The bait was avoided by everything in the pond.

I think it is like giving cod liver oil to kids.


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Wow...no wonder us poor 'au natural' pond owners can't get the phenomenal RW and overall growth I read about on this site...you guys are juicing! wink


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laugh laugh


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Originally Posted By: J. E. Craig
"...but I'm not trying to prevent heart disease. I'm trying to augment the caloric intake of fish. If it's calories, and it's in a form that can be converted by the LMB, then it's better to use the cheaper alternative."




Fat or oil is the most caloric dense 9-10cal/gm, depending on who you read. I have not gone the Healthy Organic route, but I give the BG in my retention pond the waste fat & oil from the kitchen that I have. The fat off beef & pork cooked or uncooked, is always fought over & quickly consumed. The oil from fried fish or chicken, I pour over dry fish food & let it soak in before hand feeding it to the BG. it leaves a bit of a oil sheen on the water.

I have wondered about the cost & value of large pieces of beef fat run through a grinder & fed as a high energy supplement? It would be a poor value if the BG were not getting some natural food & dry food as another supplement.

The BIG experiment: If I good get hold of a large supply of BACON GREASE & pour that over their dry food before feeding them.

What would that fried BG fish sandwich taste like with lettuce, tomato, & Mayo?



Hmmm. Interesting.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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