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#290677 05/06/12 04:30 PM
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Looking for some advice.

signed up for a government reforestation program and providing I get approval soon I will be starting the land preperation latter part of this summer.
In preperation for the tree planting in the spring of "13" the forester i'm working with wants me to do a total kill on the grass and plant red clover to put nitrogen in the soil for the trees.
The property is 36 acres with 10 of it in pond. I plan on leaving a 20' or so buffer of high grass at the pond edge and maybe another on up the hill a little further.
My concern is the chemical I will be killing the grass with. Is there a better or worse chemical to use that wont effect the pond in a bad way. And any suggestions or other concerns would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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R&R #290685 05/06/12 07:48 PM
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We did something similar 4 years ago with the WHIP program. I forget, but I think it was 400 Norway Spruce and about 800 various shrubs. The deer decimated just about everything. Here, some 4 years later, the Norway Spruce have struggled through their uninvited prunings and I would guess that about 70% will make it. I'll guess that about 15 - 20% of the shrubs will pull through.
Out of the 3 foresters I interviewed before the planting, the most senior member of the group immediately asked me if I had systematically thinned and culled the deer population. When I said "no", he politely told me that was not interested in the job, explaining that he would not invest his time into a project destined for failure.

Brettski #290689 05/06/12 08:36 PM
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Creating a "Woods" on my property for deer hunting is a part of the reason I'm doing this tree planting and I will be creating some food plots to "Try" and keep the deer somewhat preoccupied.
I guess I should mention the planting calls for 12,000 trees and I looked at two similar plantings within 5 miles of where I am that this guy did 6 yrs ago and was very impressed.
That being said I do understand there are no sure things.
Just not wanting create problems with the pond too. Thanks for responding Brettski.

And Hey if a guys gotta do some major deer heard thinnig I'm in. Thanks


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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Brettski #290690 05/06/12 08:39 PM
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Wow, culling a herd around here would mean not needing to plant any clover. Plenty of nutrients in the piles of carcasses that would be required to thin the herd even a little.

I have struggled mightily with planting trees around here. Have to fence everything. I probably have over 60 fence rings I have made to at least nurse the trees taller than the deer can reach.

I invite hunters here to help, but they only want to shoot the large bucks. I am about to put a bounty on them.

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Culling a herd is impossible.. If a forester asked me that he wouldn't of had to worry about getting the job lol..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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Yea in just about every county in southern Indiana the bag limit on does is 8. Just can't get anyone to shoot em.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

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R&R #290724 05/07/12 12:08 AM
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I'm going to be planting soybeans in the food plots, and I was told that I needed to figure out a way to keep the deer from eating them for the first few weeks. There are solar electric fence controllers on e-bay that supposedly work on up to 5 miles of fence for around $70.

R&R:

I'd be willing to come down and thin the herd - harvesting to your specifications. If you're interested, let me know. If you don't want the meat, and don't know of any needy families that would, shoot me your zip code and I'll search for a processor that works with "Hunters feeding the Hungry" or a similar program. I've got a lifetime license and don't have to buy tags.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #290728 05/07/12 01:10 AM
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I have used tree tubes with good results. Not as expensive or intrusive as large area fencing. Not effective for all species of trees and shrubs as those with low bushy growth tend not to work as well. I have used Protex Tree Tubes. The 48" or even better, the 60" tubes should be used. They also protect the tree from rodents and definitely increase the growth rate.

They also make a tape that has a scent that repels deer to keep deer out of food plot until it is established called PLOTSAVER. I have not personally used it, but a couple friends have with good results.

CJBS2003 #290732 05/07/12 02:25 AM
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My dad, uncle, sister, and I have about 60 acres in Harrison County Indiana and after opening weekend we shoot anything that walks. We were out on atv's yesterday and saw at least 10 doe on the property again.

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About 15 years ago I had my pond dug in the middle of a corn/soybean field. I ordered several thousand trees mostly from the county extension agency service over a 5 year period that were planted on 5 1/2 acres. My guess is for every five trees I planted, one lived. I mowed that whole area for a few years trying to take care of them. My tree surgeon neighbor brought me several very large truck loads of mulched tree twigs that I mulched with. But between the deer, accidentally running over them with the mower, natural dieing and accidental spraying for broad leaf weeds I did loose a lot. But it was worth it for what I have now, a park like wild life area. One suggestion I came across for keeping dear away was to buy woof urine and put it on tampax tied to trees. One thing I did try was to drive in metal fence posts and tie a black trash bags to them leaving a head like bulge at the top and the rest just looked like a mans cape blowing around. It did look real. I did fertilizer my trees with triple 12 field fertilizer. As the trees got some size to them deer would still strip and eat the bark. I took duck tape and wrapped the striped bark back against the tree and saved a good many big trees this way. When they get really big they don't bother the trees. If you want black walnut trees I took around a 100 walnuts and when the ground was soggy wet I stomped them into the ground and now I have about a dozen nice trees from planting that easy way.


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I planted 1200 tree seedlings in 2010, 7000 in 2011, and another 1200 this spring. While I'm no expect, I have picked up a few things.

Assuming the area to be planted is now just fescue pasture, I would have a local farmer bale it for hay later this summer. 2nd choice would be to mow it early August. Then the first of October hit it with about 2 quarts/acre of glyphosate and a proper amount of AMS (water treatment). Properly done, that will leave you with dead thatch to plant into early next spring. It won't hurt the pond in the watershed. I had also added OUST XP to kill the grass and have a residual effect on weed germination, but not sure about its effect on the pond??

I too have too many deer, and thats a whole 'nother discussion. Having soybeans nearby as an sacrificial planting helps, as does Plantskyyd. If your areas being planted to tree are large blocks, I would put up an electric fence (two fences, one three foot inside the other with two strands, an outer fence with electric tape 18" off the ground)

Last edited by Redonthehead; 05/07/12 12:32 PM.

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AMS = Ammonium Sulphate, right?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #290812 05/07/12 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: esshup
AMS = Ammonium Sulphate, right?


Yes. Or they make a liquid "AMS substitute" that is easier to use.


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Thanks All for the input. Kinda turned into more of a deer control subject than not doing anything to harm my fish. But thats OK if theres one thing I like talking as much or more than my ponds its deer hunting.

ALso the plantings this guy did in 2006 were very impressive. I couldnt believe the growth. And before and after pics. Next time I drive by there I'll take a picture and post it.

Esshup , Man I love that liftime liscence, Best money I ever spent. Like a dummy I didnt get the fishing too. Wish I had. Shoot me a PM closer to season and we'll plan a hunt. There are a couple of processers that work with the hunters for the hungry around here.

Being as Im doing 12,000 trees the tubes are most likeely not in the budget but I may try a few just for comparison sake. The way this program works the state also pays for weed control and pruning the following 2 years. And they will replant a portion for drought...etc...

Thanks again guys.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #290819 05/07/12 01:06 PM
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R&R:

Will do. I don't mind working if you need something done around there or a hand with something too.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #290844 05/07/12 03:58 PM
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Esshup,
Be careful what you offer I may be scrambling to build a pole barn/garage to live in half this summer. Someone wants to buy my house even though were not really ready I cant pass this up. Maybe I'll finally start a post under the "Property Projects" section. Do You archery hunt?


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #290903 05/07/12 10:39 PM
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I used to, but I'm so out of practice I use the horizontal bows during late season. I shot my first whitetail with a laminated recurve, cedar arrow and Bear broadhead a while ago. wink I still use the vertical bows to bowfish. That's easier than deer hunting! During gun season I usually use my muzzleloader. I only drag out the slug gun if I know the shots will be at a running deer, or if I go to one of the park hunts. I need to play with the ML this year before season. I screwed on a new tube late last year and never really got it dialed in. As Todd can attest, the old tube would shoot, but the new tube will give me an extra 100 yds or so of range if needed. I should be pushing the 195g .40 cal Barnes bullet somewhere around 2800 fps or so at the muzzle.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #290925 05/08/12 06:40 AM
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I did some "Redneck" ballistics testing on several muzzleloader brands and styles of bullets and far and away the barnes out performed them all. The expansion on them and weight retention is awesome. Thats all I use now.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #291266 05/10/12 01:00 PM
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Back to the original question. Is "Roundup" my best option in this case or equal or something else completely.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #291267 05/10/12 01:08 PM
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Read back through this post and I should have said he wants me to plant the red clover "This" fall.
And "Red" what is this stuff known as to the layman, where can I get it, cost? Etc................................


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #291277 05/10/12 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: R&R
Back to the original question. Is "Roundup" my best option in this case or equal or something else completely.


Do you have a bad weed problem?

jludwig #291297 05/10/12 05:56 PM
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"Roundup" (glyphosate) will kill anything green. Poast will specifically target grass, but leave broadleaf plants alone.

Cornerstone, etc. are generic glyphosates, and cheaper than "roundup" brand. Still 41% too.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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R&R #291309 05/10/12 07:37 PM
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jludwig,
Not too bad on the weeds it's mostly fescue

And thanks again esshup.


"If you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time"

Zig Ziglar
R&R #291314 05/10/12 08:23 PM
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It depends if you like fescue or not. Personally I am not a fan. But others think it goes nice.

R&R #291318 05/10/12 09:00 PM
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Fescue - or any other grass - is not compatible with a tree seedling planting. You'll have to kill it with glyphosate. Not sure I agree with planting clover, but you can broadcast the red clover seed right after spraying the fescue.


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