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#25096 08/14/03 01:54 PM
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I have a 3/4 acre pond that I had built five years ago. Stocked it with fatheads (1000) and dafnia the first fall then the following spring with 400 1-2" perch, 100 1-2" crappies, 300 2-3" channel cats, trapdoor snails, fresh water clams and crayfish. A couple weeks ago I stocked 100 3-4" Georgia giants.
Had a bad winterkill this year but it only seemed to effect the chan. cats (brown blood?), Took out over 100 carcasses after the ice went out this spring. The other fish didn't seem to be harmed or at least I saw no evidence that they were.
My problem is that I seem to have an abundance of feed; the snails have reproduced like mad and are everywhere, polywogs are even worse, I've been trapping them out and relocating them to a friends bass pond but I can't seem to make a dent in the population. Young frogs seem to occupy every square inch of bank. I was feeding the fish every evening spring through fall up until a few weeks ago; they just don't seem that interested in the fish food anymore.
They also don't bite much anymore. There are a lot of young perch and crappies that tend to steal your bait. When we do catch any large perch, chan. cats or crappies they are very fat and usually their bellies are full of snails.
I think I need to stock some LMB to keep things in check around here. I was thinking that 15 or so should do the trick. Only problem is that the closest hatchery (Zetts in Pa.) only has 6-7" bass. Don't want to get any out of a local pond, I'd like some with good genetics and something that I'm sure isn't stunted.
Any suggestions, comments, critique on what I have so far done and plan to do most welcome. I'm here to learn. Thanks


Tyler
#25097 08/14/03 02:12 PM
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Tyler,

You probably did lose many of your larger predator fish along with your catfish and that is why your feed supply is exploding. Not all dead fish float to the surface and some that do are carried off by scavengers at night or in the wee hours of the morning. Your fish aren't interested in pellet feed probably due to the abundant natural feed. Even my bass that feed on pellets everyday would still go for live feed thrown to them (shiners) if given the chance.

Too bad you don't live closer to northern Indiana. I'd be glad to sell you some 12 to 14 inch largermouth from my pond really cheap that don't feed on the pellets. I will have the pond electroshocked this fall and will be culling out many of the bass that aren't pellet feeders (can easily tell by there thinner bodies).

You could get on on the Internet and find New York's listing of fish hatcheries. Or contact your Environmental Conservation Department and they should be able to supply you with a list. If all else fails I can send you a copy.

New York has lots of hatcheries. I doubt if anyone would want to seine any bass this time of year though, but they proabably would once the water cools down.

Are you doing anything to prevent winterkill again? No sense in spending money on fish only to have it happen again.

BTW, those 6 to 7 inche bass anymore tend to be pellet trained and will grow quite rapidly. I used to put them that size in a floating cage in the spring and by late summer they were 10 12 inches. As you elluded to I would be leary of planting local wild bass though. I've added wild fish and regretted it with bacterial and parasite problems.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#25098 08/15/03 12:38 PM
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Hi Cecil and thanks for the reply.

We caught some nice sized perch earlier this spring but lately nothing larger than 6-8". The larger ones may have had some winterkill but you would have thought I would have seen some evidence of it. I was chipping the dead catfish out of the ice and scooping them off the bottom, they seemed to be concentrated in one area of the pond.
As far as preventing winterkill, I purchased a small surface aerator in mid-January last year but apparently I was too late. We had a very tough winter in these parts, pond froze over in early Nov., then was covered with 2 1/2 feet of snow, then tried to melt for a few days, refroze and covered with several feet of snow again. There was 8" of ice then about 6" of slush then another 6-7" of ice on top of that in mid Jan. when I cut out a hole for the aerator. You could smell the gas escaping as soon as I poked through the ice. Hopefully, running the aerator all winter this year will prevent another kill.
Followed your advise and found a couple hatcheries closer to home that I didn't know existed. Does 15 sound like a good number to stock with my conditions? Thanks again.


Tyler
#25099 08/15/03 02:04 PM
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glad you found someone. What size are the 15 bass?

Will your surface aerator keep from freezing up in really cold conditions?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#25100 08/16/03 08:12 PM
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Haven't had time to call the hatcheries yet to see what they have, very busy weekend for me.

Yes, last winter during below zero weather my aerator managed to keep an opening no smaller than six feet in diameter. At twenty degrees the opening was probably closer to 10' in dia. That sound like enough?


Tyler
#25101 08/17/03 12:10 PM
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Tyler,

Don't know if that was enough as I'm no expert. But I know what seemed to work for me last winter, and my pond is about the same size as yours (.62 acres 150 by 200 feet). But I think I can improve on that, but more on that later in the post.

Last winter I used a compressor that puts out 1.5 cfm's with a flexible circular diffuser that sits on a PVC stand about one foot off the bottom in about 5 feet of water on one end of the pond. (I aerate in the center of the pond in summer). This size compressor actually may have mixed the pond too well, but kept a hole open as large as 20 feet during average winter conditions. I say too well, as even in the center of the pond in the deepest water, I had temps lower than 39 F., which may have indicated too much mixing. I also caught and released some bass that had red gums that is a sign of stress. However, oxygen levels were fine, so the stress was probably from water being a little too cold in the deep water. (Believe it or not, warmwater fish can be stressed from too cold of water and prefer that relatively warmer santuary of the upper 30's in the deepest water if there is enough dissolved oxygen there.)

This winter I will use a smaller compressor that puts out only .7 cfms and see if there are more stable deepwater temps. I used it on my smaller trout pond last winter and it creates a good surface boil.

Additionaly since I attempt to raise trophy fish for sale and I have a lot invested, I also go out on the ice (stay a safe distance away from the diffuser hole) with my snow blower and blow off the snow whenever we have more than an inch of snow. Less than that and the wind did a good job of blowing it to one side of the pond.

If I had to guess, as you surmise too, the heavy snow on the ice did the most damage to your fish along with apparently not enough methane and/or hydrogen sulfide being vented off, and then when you started aerating too late you actually brought up those lethal gases even more. But it may have been better than nothing as your smaller fish survived that can handle bad water conditions better than larger fish.

As far as removing snow, according to some literature I have, you don't need to get it all off like I do. You can remove it in strips.

To show you how toxic the methane and/or hydrogen sulfide can be, I have been told by one fish farmer to NEVER EVER move a diffuser in winter as it can stir up the methane and/or hydrogen sulfide, which can have the same effect as aerating too late as you may have done. I also read about one fishing technique some Indians employed in very fertile bodies of water. They would pull large rocks behind a canoe to stir up the bottom gases that would stun fish and cause them to float to the surface for harvest.

Although in your shoes, I would feel more confortable with a bottom diffuser like mine, I would think that if you do not allow the gases to build up by running the aerator just before ice up, and get alot of that snow off, you should be O.K. next winter. But like I said, I'm no expert I just know what works for me.

If you are in the Lake Effect Snow belt you have your work cut out for you if you decide to remove snow periodically off the ice. Just make sure the ice will support you before you take equipment on the ice, and hopefully the ice freezes thick enough before the snow piles up.

I did lose one 4 lb + bass to fungus this spring but that may have been from handling the fish before release from icefishing. I won't icefish the pond anymore as I have been told from a reliable source it stresses warmwater fish.(Would be O.K. if you were not releasing them)

Good Luck.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#25102 08/18/03 05:25 AM
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I'm rather leary of using a bottom aerator for fear of lowering the water temp. down there and stressing my channel cats. I think I would have been O.K. last winter if I would have started the surface aerator at the onset instead of after things had gotten out of hand.
Yes, it doesn't get much more in the snow belt than where I'm located. At times last winter it was all I could do just to keep my 300' driveway open with an 8n Ford and a front plow! This year I'm going to try to keep the ice scraped down well and, along with the aerator, I think I'll make it through.
Going over some of the other posts on this board I read where someone mentioned papershell crayfish. You had any experience with these or know where I could find out more about them?

Once again, thanks for taking time to respond to my questions.


Tyler
#25103 08/18/03 09:47 AM
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Tyler,

I'm thinking of putting crayfish in the pond which has smallmouth, but have been warned to be careful of the species. I have a bait dealer down the road that is selling them but I do not know the species.

Bill Cody who contributes on this site has recommended the following supplier in Ohio. I'm sure shipping would not be a problem.

Crayfish man: Levon Armstrong, 05593 Williams Co. Rd , 419-298-2839. You
ought to be able to separate papershell from other types esp. rusty
caryfish. He may hae a little contamination from a local ditch or brood
stock. Let me know how it goes. BC


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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