Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Creating Habitat Vs Natural Habitat

So I have a question that the search button hasnt answered thus far.

If you have the resource of natural flooded trees/brush, why not use the timber rather than man made stuff?

I have the luxury of consulting with Josh (works with BOB), and in his final recomendations, he wanted me to clear all of the natural structure.

I have grown up fishing in west texas lakes where flooded mesquites and flooded cedar bushs are the norm. I love flipping a texas rig worm onto a log from a fallen tree.

If i clear all this structure and add man made stuff, then the stuff I love to fish is gone...

Am i wrong to want to keep some of this?


I will try to post pictures tomorrow. I will be out there doing some work.


Thanks!


dustin

If you're wrong than that makes two of us. We cleared a creek bottom for our pond and the largest stumps were "saved" to line the creek channel for habitat purposes. I believe the natural wood structure is best and it will last a long tome submerged with no oxygen to aid in its decomposition. Some of the best lakes are flooded timber remaining for 40+ yrs on L.Hartwell and L. Russell on the Ga/Sc border. Aside from tannin releases, it just feels better fishing over natural structure (including rock piles) than pvc and waste material. With a creek fed pond with constant water flow I'm doubtful the tannins will negatively impact the fishery. IMHO.

It all works about the same. I've used both and the dumb fish don't seem to know the difference.

I've read alot of posts here about natural vs. man-made structure. It seems most will agree that there is either no difference in fish attracting capability but some think natural works better.

Several people seem to think that tannins released from some wood types (oak, specificially) can affect the fishery others do not.

From my own experience, the reason I like the man-made structure is that it is nearly impossible to get your lures hung-up in them.

I have about 10 100 year old oak stumps that I rolled in the lake when it was built, and love them. Having said that, my experience has been that the structure I add gives me the ability to place the structure easier, and move it if I need to.

I've found that man made structure, added after the lake filled, really adds to the performance of my feeders. The cover seems to hold more fish in the general area, and increases my catch rate in those areas.

Personally, I'm not convinced it's an either or proposition.

Here is a few pictures of what I am thinking of keeping in the water.


Here are some trees that will only be in about 4 foot of water. I want to keep them to shield my house from the road that you can see in the background.





This is a group of trees that are going to be in about 8 foot deeper than seen here. the trees are in 2 foot of water now. i have dug a channel around the trees that is in about 7 foot of water now.




Tree off a point in the deeper part of the lake, this is right near the bowl.



This last picture shows a 5x8 foot deep channel intersection and an island with a tree on the edge. If you look very closly you can see flags on the island. those are the projected water level. on the left of the photo is another hump with some blocks at the base.







I know i only need 20% of surface area with structure, I dont think i have too much. the total surface area is about 3.5 acres


thanks

Dustin

Hi Dustin - great post.

Remember, trees above water do nothing for habitat, but they do snag casts and provide perches for cormorants. If you are going to leave your timber for structure, consider cutting to stumps. I realize it may lose some aesthetic appeal, but it's something to consider.

The one thing that artificial cover allows that leaving the trees doesn't is compact the pond basin under the cover....

Esshup,

Can you explain that a little bit? I dont understand what you mean by compact the basin.



thanks

Dustin

I have both natural and artificial cover. The advantage of artificial (porcupines) is that they are easy to assemble, place, move, and generally don't steal your lures as often, etc. I generally place artificial structure close to cedars and hardwoods. I placed several cedars over 10 years ago, and although most of the limbs are long gone, the remaining limbs and trunks still hold fish. As far as cover having the ability to attract and hold cover I am convinced that natural is generally better.

It is amazing how some of the natural cover remains for years. My pond was built in 1954 and when I lower the lake level several large stumps are still intact and holding fish. There is a 30 inch tree stump that is cut off about four feet under water close to my dock. Until I lowered the pond more than four feet I didn't even know it was there, I just knew I consistently caught fish in that area.

The part of the pond that is underwater.

Unless I had soil that they could make pottery clay from, I'd feel better if ALL of the soil that wouldl be under water was compacted with a sheepsfoot roller. No telling if there is a void in the soil under the tree that would allow water to leak out of the pond when it was full.

I've always preferred natural. However, recent rains floated a BIG cedar tree. Then we got some 40 to 50 mph winds that moved it from one end of the pond to the other. Exactly where I don't want it. Now, I have to go out, put a big rope on it and start pulling. When I get it a little closer, I can hook to my tractor and move it back "home". Pain in the butt and porcupines would have stayed put.

Great information and insight on cover. Bottom line we agree, all types of habitat help our fish and our fishing.

I have always felt a mixture of everything from big rock,rubble,stumps and brush along with artificial attractors in lots of various shapes, widths and sizes give the fish the best choices in preferred habitat.

Seems there's no reason to remove all wood cover, but to much small brush has numerous drawbacks. The large, coarse stumps and logs should stay and will decompose slowly, if much at all over time but the point about compaction around and under is certainly valid.

Benefits of artificial cover add everlasting variety that natural can't offer as mentioned, snag resistant, no decay or DO loss, as well as "on growing" bio film are just a few. Ease of installation is important to most of us, but not all. Cementing pipes, building from kits or bending and tossing are just a few of the available means of getting the job done.

The ability to move your cover around has been mentioned before but I don't see much advantage in this. Plan your attack ahead of time and put it in likely spots. If you don't catch fish on it, don't think it may still not be helping your pond in many different ways, because it surely is.

Inert substrates like PVC come in so many forms, if they didn't work well we wouldn't see them mentioned so often here and throughout the fishing/pond building communities as we do. Same goes for wood, rock and natural materials found in nature.

Wide limbs and profiles cast shade more than thin sticks and pipes. Some fish prefer this dense and dark cover, specifically bass and gills. Others like Crappie, choose the vertical sparse cover. Some of everything simply allows you to install habitat for your choice of fish and fishing style. Take a look at all the choices that are available before making conclusions on what is "best". We feel it's all good and variety again is the key to happy, healthy fish.

A recent project on a 6 acre lake in Nebraska allowed us to help the client achieve his goals by installing 350 artificial habitat structures. These will make up 25% of the needed cover. The remaining cover to be added in wood, rock and aquatic vegetation will make up Bob's recommended 20% of the surface area. Variety is the key, everything in moderation and your pond will be teaming with happy, healthy fish and fishing opportunities.

350!?! Man, that sounds like a LOT of work!

It most certainly was, and in 90 degree temps. to boot! I'll have more information and pictures/video to show soon of this project. Pond started filling today at almost 2000 gals per minute!!

I love this post, I feel it goes to a deeper issue. First off, BOB and crew are amazing and deserve respect for their opinions.

My experience has revolved around the food chain.

Man made structures protect the innocent.

We know how some size fish like different structures and so on.

But some people know how to fish the hard stuff...ie Christmas trees etc.

I think the proper response is that if your can afford unlimited tackle...fish the hard stuff...like a pro...if your a "Snagster" like me then maybe you should consider the man made less "snaggy" structures...and always provide structure for the innocent to hide.

Because eventually they lose their innocence and become forage for my predators...

You nailed it with the tannins. Other trees will release different chemicals which will either attract fish, or repel them. Let us know what type of trees you plan on using as natural structures. Esshup is one of the many pond owners that utilize various type of materials for structures. Any structure that allows immediate shelter while providing visual window will be best for the fish (mortar blocks, tires, rock reef, pine trees/branches overlapping structures, etc.). Make sure to use manmade structures that don't release chemicals which will harm your fish, such as uncured concrete materials, asphalt materials, degrading tires, untreated containers that previous have harmful chemicals, and various others. Use common sense. If you have question, let us know.



ROFL Indeed. They are..However, dump or smart, it's their natural instinct to seek shelters, and since there is an existing shelter that has no occupant, might as well use it.

Dustin, Where have you been? I have the same cedar trees and mesquite trees you have. Against Bob's suggestion I left more natural
habitat in my lake than he wanted, I would say I have more than 20% for sure. I will say the cedar trees provide a great place for my bluegill, especially the smaller ones, I know of one pond in my area where the cedar trees are at least 40 years old and still look just like mine that are only 6 years old. Of course the bass love these too because of the bluegill and the shade they provide. If you like pitching and flipping you will definitly enjoy leaving some cedars. I think a mixture of natural and artificial habitat can work well if you put them in the right places.

Guys there is a thread here with the science on this. There have been a number of scientific studies comparing one type natural to another and artificial also.

As with all generalizations the answer depends on many more factors than just the question asked. I hesitate to answer with the results as they are specific to type and location and not good for a general answer. Do not take this the wrong way but take it as one factor to consider. We use both natural and man made so that should give you a hint that both are good. Also keep in mind that man made is often part natural. What if I take a bunch of big oak limbs and put them in a bucket with concrete. Is that man made or natural or both ?

The studies over all show a small but significant (> 5%) advantage to natural cover. But the man made still worked as intended and had an advantage of not deteriorating over time. Because the natural pond processes work on natural objects they had better growth and attraction results.

I will try to find the info.

My turtles seem to like natural to artificial. This tree in the picture was perfect in that it had a natural rising hump regardless how high or low the water was. While trying to adjust the log I broke it and the turtles won't use what is left of it. So I made an artificial one for them, a 12' 2x6 with a blueboard float on the end and a 12 foot brown aluminum siding on top of the board. Not one turtle has been on it. I may drop a dead weeping willow that is next to the pond and see if they like that.

John, the aluminum siding is making it too slippery for them to climb up. Take the siding off of it and see what happens. The siding also gets pretty durn hot during the summer once it's sway from the water. Have you ever sat on an aluminum boat seat in the summer?

John, any signs of the FHM using the larger condos?

Try a piece of vinyl siding and see if they like that? Won't heat up in the sun and the textured surface will allow algae to grow.

So I called and talked to Bob last week, This great debate may have been solved. there is no exact answer to which is better, or which is better, natural or man made stuff.


After a long conversation, Bob asked me how long it would take to fish all the structure in my lake.. the answer is 3-4 hours...

So it is OK to concentrate the fish to 25% structure if you are ok with the time to fish it... if your lake is 10 acres, maybe more strategic placement would be needed, but in a smaller, 3.5 acre, my amount of structure might be appropriate, depending on your goals.



I have gotten 4 more foot of run-off, and the above cinder blocks are in the water.. i saw fatheads swimming all around those blocks... 1 point for man made...


Thanks for all the help!


dustin

Better is the stuff you catch the biggest fish on! It will change almost every day your on the water. Variety will keep you and your fish active.