Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? confirming lily-pad re-growth - unbelievable !

Gentlemen,

I hope all is well...

Previously, I mentioned that I had a 2 acre lake that had been 1/2 dried by the drought. The shape was tear-dropped with the tear-end being the entry-point and 3-7ft deep, then the drop-end 17ft.

The area that dried-up was like this for months, and the lily-pad roots [like a black spinal cord] were dried-up so when you walked on them, they crunched...they were hollow and dried.

I was pumping out the deep/tear-end to renovate, deepen the tear end, remove all lily-pad roots and put in a pier. However, 9-11 inches of rain in about 3-4 weeks filled it up and water out the spillway. Now, for the part I cannot believe...

The lily pads [with the upper leave structure of 95% rounded, then small pie-like piece gone: aka pack-man look] are now growing back to where I have seen leaves on top of areas that are 5 ft deep. HOW CAN THIS BE? Each weekend, more groups are popping-up and I need to get them under control before they obliterate the entire surface, like they did before. When like this, forget even getting-out your fishing gear.

Guys, I need your help for an eradication plan? I am all ears. There are no fish [that I have stocked] in the pond. The only thing I can think of doing is getting into my aluminum boat and make a solution of Eraser [clarification: use a "legal" herbicide that can be directly used in the water] w/ an agricultural surfactant and have at it w/ the pump sprayer...do this every weekend until they stop sprigging...Again, your advice is greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
tstex

Hmm, so you are saying nuclear bombs are out of question then? Maybe import a whole bunch of painted turtles to work them over.

Seriously if they are this tough, they are way tougher than I have been told and now I am worried that I planted some intentionally.

rain, lili pads are one of those hardy plants, like the counter part Bermuda grass on land. Once they established their roots into mud/soil, they will continue to proliferate throughout the aqua-rich environment. They become extremely aggressive when there's nutrients to establish their biota.

Three extreme methods based on my own experiences:

1. Natural removal of the soil: when the pond is dry again, you have to take out 3ft of soil all around equally. That means the bank all the way to the bottom. Ensure you work from the shallow and remove toward the deep, making especially sure not to leave any of the soil behind. Even a fragment of the roots will reestablish the lili pads back up within 2 years. Ensure all soil are isolated elsewhere, not allowing any part of the soil run back into the pond during the rain events.

2. If you want to reuse the soil, you have to cook the soil up to 210°F, killing any soft protecting seeds from the bulbs and the roots themselves. The kiln comes to mind. In the old day, we just put the soil over a criss-cross bed of dry dead trees, and cook the soil for 3 days straight with dry brushes. This allowed us to have the soil sterilized, and reinfused with the soil with fresh nutrients from the burnt plant matters. Soil become a great source for our crops growing. To apply the same method to you pond, well, you practically have to cook your pond for a few days at 210°F. Break out the blow torch and rocket fuel!

3. Chemical based: This is the last method I would dare to use in any form. Fish and turtles are great source of natural predation on the plants. But the plants will grow back. Using non-bias plant herbicides, at full strength. Make sure to use the herbicides that will kill ALL plants. You will need multiple applications to eliminate them all. That means you will not be able to use your pond for a year or two. After the pond filled up a bit, let the lilipads growth back. Spray the herbicides at full strength onto the leave. Let the water drop down again> The existing lilipad will die, including any possible rooting it created. Any diluted herbicide will work into the soil. After the pond is completely dried, UV will break the herbicide in 90 days period to 9.7% that may exist in the soil. Dilution will occur once the pond fill again. As the pond fill, remnant of the lilipad will continue to grow, however, with possible leave genetic defects, causing them to change color or wilting. One more round of application will kill them all. However, it will take about 9 months to 1 full year for the UV and the bacteria to digest the herbicides before the pond can be used without any plant's death or deformity.

Hope that help.

It's really to bad to I would love to have some Lily pads but keeping them under control sound near impossible.

Good luck Rain

Many cultivated varieties are not aggressive

If you're dealing with American Lotus, treat it like a haircut. Spray every 3 weeks til your bald. Still working on ours, after losing control early.

You can use a aquatic labeled glyphosate product, and use CideKick for a surficant. The plants have to be above the water to do that. Like was said, hit 'em every 3 weeks.

Another way to do it but it's labor intensive is to keep cutting off any leaves that reach the surface. You'll eventually starve out the plant, but there's probably 1,000's of seeds that are just waiting to germinate.

Best way is to remove the soil, but that's a LOT of work too.

Thanks Guys...the lake is at full water capacity and there is no way at this time to pump it out...I am going the herbicide route because this takes it down to the roots and knocks it out, plus eliminates the expansion of the roots...another key is to make sure they are zapped before any flowers take place...are there any lily-pad eating fish with voracios appetites?

Herei is a link to a picture of what these look like - hope this works:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/lily%20pad/kimbre23/Lily_Pad_215.gif?o=8


Thanks Again,
rain

IMO timing may be pretty important regarding how effective the first application is. Kelly Duffie may have some good advice about the best time to spray for it to be most effective at killing the most plants while using the least amount of chemical. If he doesnt respond, PM him for advice. Get an expert opinion from someone with lots of experience with this type of plant.

how about stocking some grass carp to munch on them, you could over stock a little to play catch up and then them out later...
GC eat lilly sprouts and roots dont they.

here you go - doesn't state lily-pads:

Before deciding to stock grass carp, it's important to identify the vegetation you want to control. Grass carp have definite food preferences. Bushy pondweed, American pondweed, and hydrilla are preferred foods. Grass carp are not effective for control of bulrush, filamentous algae (pond scum or moss), water primrose, coontail, Eurasian milfoil, or cattails. If you're not sure what's growing in your pond, try the Pond Manager Diagnostics Tool provided by the Texas Cooperative Extension Service.

Triploid grass carp are inexpensive compared to most other aquatic vegetation control methods. Keep in mind, however, that the types of plants these fish prefer may also be important for sportfish habitat and waterfowl food. Aquatic vegetation can be important in maintaining good fish communities and providing food for other wildlife species. Stocking grass carp may also result in alga blooms and reduced water clarity

I did some research on this matter. The experts may weigh in differently. Cide Kick is basically "Round-up" in a more expensive package. I found that information after spending $75.00 per gallon on Cide Kick.

I would get a bottle of round up and test a few lily pads. You may need to spray a de-waxing agent on the lily pads first but I would try it without first.

I'll try to find my links on my research and post them. It's been a while though.

I don't think grass carp work for lily pads.

Also youtube has lotsa videos on cutting the lily pads with a underwater cutter. Very Cool.

http://www.lakemower.com/index.html

Please search and find it. CideKick is sold as a surfactant, and not a herbacide.

It is my understanding that Cide-Kick is just a surfactant and not an herbicide. You have to mix it with Shore-Klear or a similar glyphosate product to get results.

I remember reading something on this forum about the surfactant that's already in Round-Up being potentially damaging to aquatic invertebrates. Personally, I won't use it on the pond.

Manris F, you are correct, cide-kick is just a water-based surfactant. An approved non-ionic surfactant should be used with glyphosate formulations.

If you use a land based herbicide that has a surfactant for non aquatic applications, that can possibly kill invertebrates. Using the proper aquatic-based herbicide, it is best to apply when the plant really starts to thrive, and apply in sections per application. Applying on a pond that is heavily infested, the dying/decomposing plants could possibly deplete the pond of its Oxygen, thus precipitate a fish-kill,,, this would be more prominent in stagnant water or ponds with low water levels...

To conclude, I am investigating the best/most cost effective herbicide that I can apply via a 3 gal pump sprayer while paddling in my aluminum boat...hopefully it will not be too windy. I would appreciate any of your recommendations.

thank you,
rain

Rain I would make one exception to what is believed GC control, in my experience anyway. Originally I read that Eurasian milfoil was only a secondary plant GC would eat but I tried them anyway. I experiment with my pond and I planted Eurasian milfoil on purpose. In a few years the pond was so heavily infested that I couldn't row a boat in it. In one acre I started with 6 GC and the next year I added 12 more. In 4 years the Eurasian milfoil was completely gone. 8 years later and after last year's winter fish kill I have no Eurasian milfoil to show up. I think they did somewhat control my cattails. I would see cattails floating in the water now and then. Without the CG my cattails have exploded. They would eat some of my regular lilies but not the spatterdock. Then never bothered my water irises. But they wiped out the submerged plants. Trying to balance the amount needed is the hard part.

I believe GC eat the preffered foods first but given not other foods seems they would target the lillies.
I th pond I have with no other vegitation the cat tails soon disapeared as they started eating what ever they could find.....
Kinda like kids, eat the cake first then will eat vegies if they are starving

You might also consider an aquatic labeled 2,4-D with a good surfactant(s). We use a methylated seed oil surfactant for penetration, and then a silicone based surfactant that helps the herbicide float on the waters surface to increase contact time with the leafs floating on top. In my experience, 2,4-D works much better on lotus than glyphosate and is significantly cheaper as well.