Pond Boss Forums PHOTO GALLERY Image Gallery Our new pond!

Hi all,

We had our pond dug this fall, and we wound up with a beauty! About 5 feet down hard-packed clay and stone was found and fresh water flows in where the the clay begins under the regular gravelly heavy soil (read one large flat spring). The clay is highly "sweet" made from crushed limestone which is confirmed by adding vinegar to the clay and watching it violently react. This limestone clay seems to drive the sediments out of the water quickly making for a relatively clear blue-green pond. Hopefully the fish wont care all that much.

So the pond on average once filled is ~15' deep, and 0.6-0.7 acres with an estimated volume of 3.7 million gallons. We have been gaining an average of 1" of water per day since it was dug, so it looks like we have a good seal on the dam!

We plan on using it for swimming and fishing and perhaps a little hockey. We get some pretty cold winters here so I am expecting 3+ feet of ice in the heart of winter.

On the muddy water pic you can see some footers I have put in which are for a dock. Since I am expecting the dam to shift and settle a lot, the plan is to have the footers allow the posts to pivot a fair bit. I have 160 lbs of concrete per footer plus 3-foot masonry spikes pounded through rocks and clay. I could not come up with a better way since getting treated posts with the correct fresh-water treatment was too expensive and I would need to order 30 of them. The side where I have virgin ground to hold posts better is too muddy and steep. No way to get an auger down there.

Anyhow I wanted to share my excitement! Always wanted something like this, and we took a big stretch to spend this much money on something like this.

More pictures:
https://picasaweb.google.com/wymanfamily3/PondProject?authuser=0&feat=directlink

-Mark

Congratulations!

What are you going to stock?

Probably some Sunnys (not sure of the variety yet) and small mouth bass. I am trying to stay away from large mouth bass because they can strip so much other life out of a pond such as frogs and crayfish.

Alternates/additions: Walleye, Trout. If so I may need to feed.

Also there is a type of goldfish a local pond supply shop has that don't appear to be bottom feeders. I thought those would be fun and they look really cool. (Willow Pond Aqua Farms)

So: No Carp, catfish, or bottom-feeding goldfish. I want my pond clear and natural if possible. Shooting for some lilies transferred from a small garden pond and cattails for cover.

I really enjoy snorkeling in ponds, especially one I swap in years ago which was a perfectly clear spring fed pond you could see clear across full of life like an aquarium. Just incredible!

-Mark

Mark, welcome to PB. Your pond looks great, I hope the seal is good and your water fills in quick and stays filled in. Looks like you are well on your way!

There are several species of sunfish to consider stocking in a NY pond. You are too far north for redear sunfish(RES). The 3 major species to consider would be bluegill(BG), pumpkinseed sunfish(PS) and redbreast sunfish(RBS). If you have plans on using only smallmouth(SMB), BG and PS would probably not be a good option. Their reproductive rates are too fast for SMB to keep up with and you will likely end up with stunting issues from over population. RBS attain about the same size as PS but aren't as large as BG. They do not reproduce nearly as fast and are commonly found in the same habitat as SMB. They are a bit more fusiform(narrow shaped) than PS and BG making them easier for SMB with smaller mouths to feed on. They are harder to find commercially than BG or PS, but they are available. They even come in a color mutation similar to golden rainbow trout.

I would highly recommend in a smaller pond such as yours that you look into getting pellet trained SMB if possible. A handful of walleye(WE) could be considered by don't expect fast growth rates or fish that get over 18" in a smaller pond. You can see if trout will survive year round, but even in your northern latitude, it is unlikely they will survive the summer's heat unless you have a substantial spring inflow into your pond to help cool it down. They may also not survive extended periods under thick winter ice. If they do survive the ice, you can stock them as a seasonal fish in the fall and harvest them by late spring when temps begin to get too warm for them... Another species to consider would be yellow perch(YP). YP are generally a good combination with SMB. If you can find pellet trained perch, that would be ideal.

I would strongly recommend against stocking any variety of goldfish into your pond... I have never heard of a non bottom feeding goldfish and highly doubt one exists. It really sounds like a marketing scam to me and I would be highly cautious... Goldfish regardless or their lineage within a generation or two tend to revert back to a more wild form and I can bet those will be bottom feeders and will not be what you want in your pond.

I would do some research here on the forum, utilize the search engine and the Common Pond Q&A (archives) Research SMB in particular since you are strongly considering them. Also look at starting a food chain for SMB. Species such as fathead minnows(FHM), golden shiners(GSH) and crayfish will most likely want to be stocked in the spring. The SMB could be stocked in the fall after next spring. The RBS could be stocked with the SMB particularly if the SMB stocked are of a more advanced size.

It sounds to be you are looking for a balanced fishing pond which maintains good clarity for swimming aesthetics as well as snorkeling... Do these goals fit? If not, what are the goals for your pond? Knowing them can help with advice...

Yellow Perch would be a nice addition if you like to eat perch.

Mark welcome to the forum, glad to see another upstater on here, good luck with your pond it looks great.
When your ready to stock fish just get a fish stocking permit from DEC, here's the link to the permit http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/stockingform.pdf
you can also check with your local office about applying for it but I had no problems getting one and if you can believe it they don't even charge you for it.

Hey thanks for the link! The local DEC on 5&20 is just down the road a bit, so it shouldn't be too hard. I will fill it out and see where it leads.

This is a long cry from my 10x20 garden pond!

Welcome and congratulations on your beautiful pond!

Having just visited Avon for the same purpose a few months ago, I can tell you that you'll want the farm pond form. It will allow you to stock the species listed at any time and will allow you to legally harvest fish with any method listed (you request the species and methods by filling out the form). You and your immediate family won't need a license and if I recall correctly, it also exempts you from seasonal and size restrictions on that BOW.

CJBS2003 gives some really good advice.

I'd stay away from Willow Pond for your initial stocking. Going to a hatchery will probably be cheaper for the quantities you'll need. Fingerlakes Aquaculture is down near Naples. I haven't gotten any fish from them but the owner is a former DEC Fisheries guy. I can tell you that he could've sold me some fish this fall but told me I'd be better off waiting until spring. He may well have had motives that I don't know about but seemed like he valued my success nearly as much as selling fish.

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted. Great to see others here from the Rochester area.

P.S. If you hit 24" of ice, I'd be surprised - even without aeration.

Yellow Perch would be a great way to go for some nice table fair. Schults Fish Hatchery might not be that far of a drive depending where in NY you are, they have really nice YP.

Yeah, Schults' is a bit far for me, about a 4 hour drive each way :-(. Think I will stick with the 20 minute drive to Naples or Willowpond.

My neighbor's pond 3 years ago froze to at least 4'. You could stand over the cracks and see the devil waving from below! Seriously I shoved a stick down the crack 3' and no water was welling up. The problem with being at 1400 feet, no springs, and exposed is his pond freezes deep.

My pond has some springs and a small creek and is not as exposed, but it is still around 1300'. I had my garden pond freeze 3' and lift up off of the liner. If I was thinking I would have dragged out the chunk and had a nice perfectly clear pond again!

Ya know, I kept hearing this voice in the back of my head as I was writing that. It kept telling me I didn't know what I was talking about. The only ice I've payed attention to was on Sodus Bay and there is a very different set of conditions there.

Now you've got me nervous. I don't have anywhere near your 15'.

Yeah, if you live nearer to Lake Ontario, your nights don't get as cold and you freeze line is much shallower (thus all of the fruit farms near the lake). Many times in the winter my house is 10-20 degrees F colder south of the Thruway than my parent's house 2 miles from the lake in Webster. However down the road from us about a mile is in a low spot, and they get much colder than us up on a hill.

Oh, I am a weather nut, so I have a good long record of weather at my location back about 7 years now. Example this past January averaged about 20F. In '07 the end of January into the start of February was averaging around 12F for 25 days! That is when the "crack" appeared.

Speaking of which, my anemometer just froze up. Having an unpredicted ice storm and it is raining hard.

Oh I forgot to thank the Admin (CJBS2003) for the great advice.

I am still reading up and soaking up as much as possible. Seems like I just cannot "have it all" in this pond as I was hoping to cater to amphibians as well. I am lining up to get leftover Christmas trees at local farm markets for cover for the smaller fish.

So far local advice from Fingerlakes Aquaculture says I should stock with Fatheads and shiners early spring to establish them fairly well before introducing SMB, Perch, and Walleye in the early fall. I described my bottom and inflows for water and he thinks there is a small chance the Walleye could breed as he has seen it happen in ponds like ours! The stoney bottom and small creek may be enough to make them happy.

Definitely no goldfish. However the pond at Willowpond that had these beautiful fish in it was perfectly clear when ponds adjacent to it with goldfish and Koi were chocolate milk. It was fun to feed them though...

Fingerlakes Aquaculture also recommends not to aerate in our area since we get wind fairly regularly plus the expense is high (our electric rates are terrible). He says trout may do fairly well, it doesn't hurt to try. Our higher elevation does keep things cooler. The warmest pools get around here is 72-75 degrees unless you toss on the blankets.

Going to keep an eye out for the Red-breasted sunfish too. Used to have pumpkin-seed sunfish in aquariums growing up and those little guys were smart and could be trained to recognize who fed them! They LOVED grasshoppers and crickets. Beautiful fish in aquariums other than they take up a lot of room!

-Mark W.

If you want color in the fish, look at stocking Golden Trout (the color morph of the rainbow).

Ask Fingerlakes Aquaculture if a thermocline will set up in your pond. If so, then you will benefit from a bottom aeration system. If you have stable water levels in the pond, and there is enough cover in the shallow areas (1' or less) of your pond to prevent fish from having free access to the shallow area, you could provide habitat that will shelter amphibians from most of the fish predation.

Well, the pond finished filling last night, which is something considering the contractor who dug the pond was questioning if it would even fill by spring since he hit no springs. He did hit springs, he didn't realize it, they we just up much higher on the hillside rather than in the depths of the pond. Quite a lot of water coming out of them, he managed to dig after they went dry as they are more towards the surface.

Anyhow I am now worried since there is a significant amount of water coming out of the overflow, probably 20GPM or more. Looks like the slope is gentle enough to deal with it and on virgin soil, but that is way more water than expected. It shows one thing, my original calculations for easily supporting 1.5 acres was right, and the contractor's for 0.5 acres was too conservative. I may have him expand an area as shallow 3-4 feet rather than the much deeper heart of the pond to support lilies and such. Then I can support amphibians and minnows better. Probably only a 0.2 acre increase at the most, and could be done with a small excavator.

I have been concerned about the lack of any shallow water.

I will post some more pics once this snow and wind die down. Really really nasty out right now. In fact I would normally be at work.