Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Threadfin Shad question

Okay, two years ago we stocked Threadfin Shad in the early spring, they seemed to take hold quite well, and last fall I was seeing large schools containing at least 4 different size/age classes up to 6"+. Normally the only time I see them is during warm weather in the morning/evening when they "flip" across the surface in groups. This year I have yet to see them at all, my water temps are well into the 80's and the water has been extremely clear this year (see reply on Shocking extremely clear water thread). How possible/likely is it that with said clear water the bass just wiped out the shad between November and now? Am I just being paranoid? Is it too early in the year to be worried? 15 acres, Atlanta area, mild winter so no freeze kill issues, Greg's my pond guy.

Oh additionally:
I've got healthy populations in all size classes of CNBG, redears, some redbreasts, *%#&$^(* green sunfish, and we just stocked ~300 lbs of Golden Shiners, so there's lots of forage choices, not just the TS.

If the water is very clear all the time that is an indication of low plankton #s (low fertility). TShad are plankton feeders. Were they there in good numbers in Nov.? Are you not seeing any TS ? You should be seeing spawning/new fish by now.

TopH2O,

You have a large enough pond(15 acres) that should provide ample places for the shad to escape LMB winter predation. That lack of escape water, has been the problem for me in small ponds in a couple of failed attempts at establishing them.

You are in good hands with Greg.

This may be another crazy idea but why not stock TS shad on an annual basis the same as tilapia?

If customer demand is high enough will not the prices come down – competition works!

As far as losing TSshad in cold weather predation by concentration in isolated deep water of pond, we have frequent mild winters in the southern states.

I don’t buy into the idea that they all concentrate in a deep hole in small ponds – I sometimes find my best wintertime striped bass in shallow coves, chasing shad seeking warming water on shallow west/northwest shorelines.

I love wintertime striped bass fishing – catching big moes chasing shad in cold shallow water. When we get a bad shad kill, it’s usually in the shallow coves where the TSshad are caught napping.

My experience frequently disagrees with competent fisheries biologists that don’t have the time and opportunity to spend time on the water.

ewest: Yes, I have bad fertility but I can't fertilize because of the amount of flow through the lake. In the Oct/Nov timeframe before it got cold, I saw a HUGE school, had to be 30' in diameter and stacked several feet deep, and haven't seen dead shad anywhere, so the weather didn't get 'em. I just wonder if it's possible that the LMB wiped them out over one winter/spring. But with the various cold fronts we had this spring it may just be a bit early for me to worry.

George: Since I'm on a residential lake, every purchase has to go through the homeowners' association, and it's like pulling teeth.

And as far as being in good hands with Greg, don't I know it! When I first moved here 3.5 years ago (and got put in charge of the lake within 2 months, and hired Greg within a month after that), we had a very bass-heavy system with Wr around 70-75% and 95%+ were less than 14". Though we had some issues shocking this year, just from fishing I can see the Wr are WAY up. For example, between yesterday evening and this morning, total of about 2 hrs fishing, I caught:
19", 4-3 [on a tiny torpedo no less!]
16", 2-10
16", 2-8
16", 2-7
15", 2-0
15", 1-13
and 5-6 dinks. Those 6 bass are all near or above 100% Wr, so a huge improvement obviously.

From SRAC # 141 and 140 edited from http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=4

This may help a little to see if there is a problem or if they are just hiding and late.


Threadfin shad

(Dorosoma petenense)

Range

The threadfin shad is a member of the herring family and ranges from Florida to Mexico and northward. Introductions of threadfin shad as a
supplemental forage species have greatly increased its range. The threadfin is susceptible to winterkill at water temperatures of 42° F, limiting its range northward.

Description

The threadfin shad appears to be an excellent forage fish because it is short lived, grows only to a maximum size of 7-8 inches and schools
in large numbers.

Life history

A pelagic (open water) schooling species often stocked as a supplemental forage, threadfins spawn in the spring and early summer with
a secondary spawn often occurring in the early fall. Spawning usually occurs early in the morning on available vegetation. The eggs adhere to submerged and floating objects. Females lay from 2,000 to 24,000 eggs.

The young and adults feed on a variety of planktonic organisms and organic debris. Many researchers believe that threadfin shad often
compete for plankton with young-of the-year predator species, especially largemouth bass. Life expectancy seldom exceeds 2 to 3 years.

Following fertilization, adult threadfin shad (2 1/2 inches and larger) arc stocked at the rate of 100-200/surface acre. Threadfin begin spawning
when water temperatures reach 65° to 70° F with peak spawning occurring at 75° F. Spawning has been documented from April to mid-September. Early fall spawners are typically fry that were hatched during spring spawning. Spawning mortality of adults maybe responsible for the short (1 to 2 years) life span. Spawning occurs along the shoreline on submerged vegetation. Spawning habitat such as broken hay bales (6- inch layers) or Spanish moss mats should be provided. Spawning activity usually occurs around daylight. Several fish farmers have successfully transported the eggs (attached to the spawning surface) to clean fertilized ponds for grow-out purposes. The fertilized eggs normally hatch in 3 to 5 days at 70° to 80° F. preferred, success has been achieved with this method during the summer months.

George, I like your thinking, I will be adding threadfins each year...just like tilapia.

George and eastland. This is coming from a guy who sold alot of shad thsi year. If you have them I see no advantage other than expensive snack in restocking. Still not sure what happened to Troy above if he does not have yes we propose to restock. However they will spawn to carrying capacity why spend the money if you you already have them and if you fertilize, harvst bass , etc and not too cold a winter you shoudl have them.??? I have cilents do it and I tell them I don't think thye need to after the second time they say they want them I do it, it is business. Tiliapia every year no matter what unless you are in deep south lat. so it is a no brianer to restock. Let me know where I'm off here.

Greg, I'm planning stocking TSshad for the FIRST time - not re-stock.

I mentioned stocking each year for those that have concerns about yearly shad kills, or predation by winter concentration - which I don't buy into...what is your opinion?

Thanks for the advice Greg, I was going to stock about 100 per acre next Spring because I'm not sure I'll be able to verify they survived the Winter. I only catch shiners & bgill in my minnow traps, and I'm pretty bad with a cast net, are there other sampling methods I could try ?