Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Crappie versus Bluegill

We are always told not to put crappie in a small pond because they will overpopulate it and stunt. What is it about crappie that make this so compared to bluegill?
Do they spawn even more and have more babies than BGs?
Are their offspring harder to catch and eat by predators?
They don't grow a great deal larger than BG, do they grow faster and spawn sooner?

Not trying to upset the conventional wisdom. Just wondering what the difference is.

Read through all of the links is this thread and you will know more than you ever wanted to know about Crappie.

Crappie In Ponds - PB Forum View

Also check out this thread with pics.

Re: Advice on this possible "crappie" mistake! [Re: CJBS2003]

Crappie spawn earlier than bass or bluegill. This gives them the ability as fry to outcompete the bass and bluegill for crucial invertebrate resources. Picture literally millions of half inch crappie pounding away at the zooplankton, then turning their attention to the struggling larval bluegill and largemouth bass one third their size. Not a pretty picture. Crappie are known for their staggering year-classes that dominate a pond for years. Capable as adults of living on both fish and invertebrates but too small to interest anglers...

....but they do taste good.

I'll chime in with a little bit about my own observations of my crappie population.

I had heard about from a neighbor that a person who fished the pond fairly regularly with permission from the previous owner had decided he'd "help" the pond out by stocking about 50 crappie (both white and black) that he had recently caught in another lake in the area. As the story goes, this occurred some time in 2004.

I had written the story off, assuming that either they never established or it was just rumor, since I had never caught a single one in 2 years of fishing. However, I never really targeted them in all honesty.

Then, in the Spring of last year my nephew called me up and said he had just caught what he thought was a really nice sized crappie. I told him to take a picture and send it to me, and I'd let him know. Sure enough, crappie... and a really nice sized one at that. So, I decided to do a little crappie fishing myself, sought out what I felt would be the best spots for them to congregate for spawn. I tried half a dozen spots and nothing, and then bingo... caught 5 crappie all about 8 inches long within 15 minutes and then nothing. Judging from their very uniform size, I assumed they were probably the same age. I tried fishing for them many more times that year, and only caught one more, but again, the same 8 inch size.

This Spring, while doing some early season bass fishing with my brother, I decided once again to give the crappie a try. Tried several spots, nothing. Went back to the exact same spot I had luck with the year before, bingo... 5 crappie in about 15 minutes and then nothing. Just like the year before! However, this time they were all right around 6 inches in size, presumably a different age class than the ones I had caught the year before.

Now, assuming the "Original 50" were stocked 7 years ago at this point, they've had plenty of time to populate the pond. Yet, they have certainly come nowhere close to overpopulating. There may be a few unique characteristics at play here however. Prior to purchasing the property, the pond had been almost entirely unmanaged with regard to the fish population. It also had very little fishing pressure, particularly for a pond of its size (roughly 12 acres). Additionally, golden shiners were "bait bucket stocked" around 2004 as well, and they had successfully established in the pond and still are going strong today. This in itself is impressive because the pond was on the bass heavy side, though not overly so. There is a massive amount of structure in the north end of our pond. Several acres of the north end are flooded woodlands, and the trees were left standing. There are also two small seasonal creeks in the north end. In addition, there is a generous amount of established vegetation in the 1-6 foot depth range. Golden shiners and crappie tend to spawn at just about the same time in my area. If anything, the golden shiners seem to possibly be a bit earlier.

As a result of all this, it is my belief that the golden shiners have enough protection in the pond to prevent heavy predation, so generous numbers of large breeder sized shiners continue to exist in the pond. I also believe recruitment is surprisingly high year after year due to the same. With this large population of golden shiners, I believe they may be having a substantial impact on crappie recruitment due to both species yoy competing for the same food sources as well as predation pressure on the larval stage crappie from the adult golden shiners. The pond remains a bit bass heavy (pretty normal for most of us), and I believe the adult bass may be hitting the remaining yoy crappie that escape the wrath of the golden shiners pretty hard, further keeping them in check.

Something is certainly at play here, and this seems plausible to me. Anyone have any thoughts?

Haven't seen you on here in a while... Welcome back!

I'll take a crack at what I think may have been going on and is going on in your pond...

Because the crappies in your pond were stocked after it was established they didn't have a head start on your bass. In new ponds, crappies are often stocked at the same time or even before the bass. This means they get a head start on the bass and this is a big part of the problem. They are quicker to reach maturity and spawn first, mean there are many many crappies born into a pond with little or no predation on the newly born crappies. In your pond, there was already a well established bass population to effectively prey upon your crappies.

Crappies spawn at 58-68 degrees F. All spawning is done in the spring.

Information on when and at what temp GSH spawn is varied depending on the source. Anywhere from 59-70 degrees F in one source to 68-80 degrees in another. However, all sources agree that spawning is can be spread out into late summer or early fall. It has been my experience that GSH do not spawn at temps in the upper 50's or low 60's. I usually see GSH spawning about when the bass are wrapping up their spawning and the BG are just starting.

It would be a large surprise for me to see GSH spawning before or with crappies.

I do not believe the GSH are having much of an affect on your crappie spawning success. I have no doubt that the GSH are providing an excellent forage base for your crappies and they make be taking pressure off your bass and sunfish fry as the crappies may be focusing more on the GSH than the LMB and sunfish fry and YOY. It has been shown in research that species like GSH do slow the initial growth rates of YOY crappies and bass. This is because GSH feed on the same zooplankton that YOY/fry crappie and bass feed on. However, once the YOY crappies and bass get to a size where they can effectively prey on the GSH themselves, growth rates improves and become better than without GSH present. Perhaps, the initial reduced growth rate by YOY crappies, means they stay in a size range where they are more vulnerable to predation by LMB meaning more are eaten?

Your 12 acre lake is rare amongst private BOWs. It cannot be compared to smaller ponds. Most smaller ponds have minimal shallow water areas and limited habitat to produce good year classes of GSH. You can stock GSH into a 1 acre pond ahead of bass. They will do well, but once the bass get stocked it's only a matter of time. Those original stockers and perhaps one or two year classes after that will do well. Then the bass predation becomes too heavy with limited shallow water areas for the YOY GSH to take refuge in. Within a few years, all you have left are the GSH that are too large for the bass to eat. They will spawn each year, producing young but all those young will be eaten in a short period of time. Eventually your first couple generations will age. GSH have a maximum life span of about 7-9 years. So, by the time a pond is 10 years old, the GSH will have died out.

Your lake is different, it contains suitable spawning and rearing areas for GSH. This means you have a naturally reproducing and maintaining GSH population. There are some smaller ponds that have the right conditions, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I think the biggest factor is why your crappies haven't gotten out of control is they were stocked after the bass were well established and they have a self sustaining forage base to feed on. Had the crappies been stocked before or with the bass, you'd see a very different outcome.

And the pond is slightly bass heavy.

Thanks for the Cliff's Notes version Bruce.

Weisguy your pond sounds a lot like mine. Mine is slightly larger, but also has a feeder creek, lots of vegetation, very little management until I bought it three years ago, maybe slightly bass heavy and crappie stocked by a bucket biologist. I have never stocked or seen any GSH though.
We regularly catch crappie, nothing real large, usually nice eating size. A very nice addition to the pond. No problems with them at all that I can see. This is what lead me to ask the original question, of why they cause problems in a small pond while BG don't.

Of the dozens of ponds I have managed or fished, and also had crappie. More than half of them had no problems whatsoever. The ones that DID have a problem, though, were sometimes really bad.

IMO the main disadvantage to crappie compared to BG (assuming this is the topic), is I think at least two features /characteristics: 1. Crappie have a larger mouth and capable of eating larger food items compared to BG. 2. Crappie normally eat more fish compared to a BG. Thus crappie function as more of a direct competetor to small bass or other small piscivors compared to BG. Crappie foraging is flexable and they can survive eating small items (small as zooplankton, small insects) and/or larger items (small fish, larger insects). There are pros and cons to this feeding behavior and how it 'plays out' in the fishery. These features combined with the spawning features can lead to overpopulation or problems with species balance in ponds.