Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat New Pond - Am I Missing Anything?

I've posted before about how I messed up our 6 acre pond by introducing too many grass carp and white crappie. To sum up, the lake is often too green, too muddy, and the bass tend to be underweight. Since the pond is a reservoir, this spring's rain (triple what is normal for northern Ohio) has resulted in muddy water most of the time since ice-out. No one would want to swim it in.

I decided to build a new small pond as close to the house as I could get it that would be free of these mistakes. The primary purpose would be to provide an eye-appealing pond with a fair population of BG and LMB for the grandchildren. It would have to be clear enough to be inviting to swimmers. I thought that if I could excavate an up-ground area, not fed by any streams and with little watershed, it would fill with rainwater and remain clear. I asked an excavator and he agreed that it could be done. He estimated the cost and I agreed ($13,000 UGH!). It would be about 2/3 of an acre as that's all that would fit in the area near the house. The elevation would be about 6 feet higher than our big pond. About half of the pond will be about 4 feet deep and the other half will be about 9 feet deep. It will have a 3:1 slope.

Since the soil is all good clay, the excavator says it will eventually fill up with rain water, although it will take a long time. He suggested that we pump water from the big pond into the new one but I thought it was a bad idea. I fear that baby crappie could get sucked up and into the new little pond this way.

I'm just wondering if I'm missing anything or if I'm making some big mistake somewhere. The excavator started work about a week ago and he still needs few days more of work. Should I be thinking about spawning areas? Structure? A diving platform? What would you all do if you wanted an aesthetically pleasing pond that kids could fish and swim in? Should I limit the stocking to BG and LMB to play it safe?

Here is a photo of the excavation work so far. The big pond is 50 feet beyond the trees. Thank you so much for any of your comments!

There's a few questions that need to be answered. Regarding watershed, has the NRCS been out to look at the place where the new pond is going? Will the pond be receiving any rain run-off or just relying on rainfall and snowfall to fill the pond?

Instead of using the other pond to pump water from to fill the pond, can well water be used? (I know, more $$$ spent) Filters and strainers can be used, but there's always the possibility of bringing in something unwanted from the other pond.

Do you live on the property? If for a swimming pond, what about HBG, RES, along with FHM & GSH to build up a forage base, then adding HSB? Would you have a feeder on the pond?

I think 9 feet might be a bit shallow to prevent winterkill, but I'm not familiar with your winters. The 4' depth might promote weed growth if the water is kept clear enough so sunlight can reach the pond bottom.

Will the water depth vary from season to season? Floating pier or permanent one built on posts?

Fish cover should comprise of 10% to 20% of the ponds surface area, and be kept away from the swimming area. I would place some cover in the deeper water to provide habitat for the fish during the winter.

Will you be aerating the new pond?

Esshup, Thanks so much for responding!

As to the watershed: I tried to get a pond permit from the Lorain County Soil and Water Conservation District (it would have been $500). Due to budget cuts and the fact that their main pond man is quitting, that agency is in disarray. It would have been a month or longer to get a permit from LSWCD. The excavator obtained a permit from the township instead and, according to the excavator, the LSWCD is satisfied (that township permit was only $50!). No one from the either agency bothered to come out to the property. I spoke to a man in the LSWCD and he remembers my property well and he knows the excavator very well. The township people also know the excavator. Both agencies have high regard for him. So do I need the feds from NRCS too? Ugh! The excavator has built dozens of ponds in the area and never mentioned needing them.

As you can probably guess from the photo, the new pond will receive very little rain runoff. We are relying on rainwater and snow to fill it. I never thought of well water. I don't know if we can make a well. That area of the county has city water so I never needed to inquire about a well. Good idea though! I'll look into it.

No we don't live on the property unfortunately. We live back in the suburbs and I'm out at the "farm" property Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays only.

Wow! That's quite an array of fish species you recommend! But what are HSB? Hybrid striped bass? Hmmm! Another good idea! What about yellow perch? They are the tastiest fish I know of and although they were stocked in the big pond, I manage to catch only about a dozen or so each year.

As far as the depth, the excavator wanted to do only 8 feet. I told him I thought 10 would be better for the very reason you cited, winter kill. We sort of settled on 9 because the cost really goes up with each foot.

I too am concerned about the shallow 4' area becoming a weed farm in clear water. But I think I'll chance it as I have a friendly neighbor who enjoys spraying chemicals. I'd rather pay him to help spray now and then, than to anger my wife more by running up the excavation cost of this pond. She doesn't care much for project unless and until I can prove to her that the grandchildren will really enjoy the results.

Yes, I'm sure the water depth will vary a lot during the course of any given year, although it should be a similar pattern every year. During dry summers, I think the pond depth could drop as much as two feet. The big pond goes down as much as one foot each year but it has a large watershed and is fed by an intermittent stream.

I don't think I'll be aerating the pond unless we see a real need to. I might be asking knowledgeable folks like you that question in the future if the fish are dying or the water doesn't look healthy. As I see it now, fish evolved just fine the past 200 million years without aeration, and suddenly all the fish hatcheries are pushing it as a necessity. It must be a big money-maker for them.

Last, as for fish cover, do you think I could wait to see how much weed growth occurs? Should I tie an evergreen tree or two to cinderblocks and put them near the break between the shallow and the deep water? Would those commercial fish attractors be better?

Thanks so much for reading all of this, thinking about and replying! People like you make this site invaluable and thereby change lives for the better.

Sandman, just a quick note before hitting the sack. If the other pond drops a foot and receives a lot of runoff, then the new pond will drop more..... Especially during our dry Fall months. The past few years it seems that the ponds have entered the winters lower than normal, which might spell disaster for the fish. My pond receives some rain runoff in the spring, but nothing after that. It's dug in sand, which doesn't help at all. I dug the pond down to 22' depth, and had a hurricane wash in 2 feet or so of sediment not a month after the pond was completed. Last year the water was so low that I only had 11' of water in the pond. A friend who had his ponds dug to 10' only had between 4' and 5' in his ponds. he has a very small biomass in the pond, and I checked his pond at least every month for O2 levels. They got dangerously low, but he avoided a winterkill. That was with an aerator running......
Just plan your fish for the minimum pond size and you shouldn't have a problem.

re: aeration. Yes fish have survived fine without it, but normal shallow ponds will die every year. The deeper lakes won't die because the fish have more water to utilize, or they won't die to the extent that shallow ponds will.

Yes HSB are Hybrid Striped Bass.

The problem with relying on weeds is that while they can provice cover, there's no guarantee that it will be in the places that benefit the fish or you.

If your neighbor likes spraying, just make sure that he uses the correct chemicals and applies them at the correct rates. For instance, algae will get knocked back by a few different chemicals, copper sulphate, cutrine plus, phycomiacin. Of the 3, copper sulphate is the worst for the pond because copper will build up over time in the pond bottom sediment.

You don't need the NRCS, but they can calculate how many acres of watershed you have if you want to collect any surface rain run-off.

With a well, there is a float switch available which can be set up to automatically turn on the well if the water drops below a certain level.

Esshup,

Wow! I love the idea of the well with a float switch to automatically start pumping if the water drops. I'm definitely going to study that. You're right, I think there is a trend toward less precipitation in late summer and fall. However, in my area, we get hammered by a lot of snow each year, so that by the time the ice forms, the water level has always been at full pool and spilling over the drain. At least this has been true in the old pond.

Your town and mine are at almost exactly the same latitude. I'm just 250 miles east of you by car, so we probably share much the same climate (except that perhaps we get more snow here?). So if I'm to learn from your experiences, I need to deepen the pond. However, our big pond has not had much sediment build up in it's 40 year history. The deepest portion has always been 12 feet. The shallows are still very close to what they always were in depth. Also, the new pond actually sits perched up on a plateau. From any direction you would have to walk a bit uphill to reach it. Do you think that such a high-ground pond would still be subject to very much siltation (or sedimentation)?

I too have been leery of copper build up from chemicals. My neighbor and I use the minimum amount Cutrine Plus twice a year in the big old pond to reduce the phytoplanktonic algae (green water). He watched, then he duplicated a system used by pond management pros which shoots out the chemical with a mixture of water through a fire hose nozzle. The force also propels and steers a small boat around to cover the pond effectively. If he could handle the 6 acre one, he should be good to go with a 2/3 acre pond.

Thank you (and anyone else) for your comments and suggestions on this new project!

Sandman, we get lake effect snow here, as you know, it just depends on how the wind blows. I believe we had around 100" of snow last year. One LE storm dumped 6" here and I drove to a friends place not 20 miles South of me. There was 20" of snow on the ground there.

With your pond up on a plateau, no it shouldn't get much sedimentation. It all depends on how much organic matter blows into the pond (leaves and such).

Thanks again, Esshup! What do you (or others) think about stocking yellow perch in a small pond? In your list of fish suggestions, I didn't see YP mentioned. I repeat myself when I say, they sure are tasty!

YP in a small pond are just fine. Just research their food and habitat needs and plan accordingly if they fit in your fishery stocking goals for the pond. Because of their fusiform shape, they might be more susceptible to predation from other fish vs. a BG the same length.

I don't like to throw cold water on your pond party but IMO water depth of 4' over a significant percent of the pond is planning for a weed haven. Weeds grow in shallow water look at the results in the big pond. Weeds don't grow much if any in the middle, they are always in water 5 ft and less. IMO Your friendly neighbor will be busy working on the weed problems in your new pond. I disagree with your contractor that ""We sort of settled on 9 because the cost really goes up with each foot."" Think about the amount of time or dirt that gets moved. That determines the cost. Deeping the belly of the pond is working in the smallest area that keeps getting smaller as you go deeper. Thus IMO as you go deeper the cost for each extra ft of depth gets actually cheaper per ft of depth not more expensive. Yes each extra ft of depth adds cost but not all that much compared to the upper or top 1-4 ft. IMO and experience in northern ponds the deeper the entire pond is up to 14-18 ft and steeper the sides the fewer the weed problems. Extra depth soon pays for itself in savings for weed chemicals, labor, agravation and life span of the pond before it needs to be rebuilt due to too much shallow water and numerous problems due to eutrophication.

YP do well I small ponds. I wrote 3 articles about raising YP in small ponds. However management of YP will be comparatively more difficult in several aspects due to weed problems when a significant portion of the pond is only 4-5ft deep.

Bill, You and Esshup have been of great help to me. You both have convinced me. I talked to the excavator and he now has made a pretty large area of the pond at 10 feet deep, with a small trenched out area that drops to 12 feet. The shallowest area is 3.5 feet in depth. It slopes down really quickly from there so that there is very little of the pond that will be shallower than 5 feet.

There isn't any structure or cover, but I'm thinking I'll get those Bill Dance porcupine fish attractors and make a line of them from the shallows to the deep, sort of a highway for the fish to follow.

Here's an updated photo but unless you walk down into the pond basin, you don't get enough sense of how deep the pond is.

Thanks again to both of you!

You're welcome. That's what we're here for, to help other pondmeisters with their ponds. That pond looks good, like a blank canvas ready for paint. The best time to add cover is when the water is NOT in the pond, you can place things easily.

Take a look in the archives. There is a very good thread about cover for fish, and there's tons of ideas.

Now is the time to put in a dock or pier. It's harder to do it once the water is in the pond. The hardest part about doing it now is trying to figure out the water height if you want the pier low to the water.

You're right Esshup, now is the time to put in that pier. I have two friends with building experience over at the pond site now looking to do just that. There is a small overflow pipe that they could use to site the anticipated water level. As you could see, rains the other day already flooded the very deepest area, making it difficult to work there.

Looking good MrSandman. I'll bring my pole and a couple of fish cribs and we'll start things off right!

PeePaw, that would be great! I'm still looking for ideas for constructing fish habitat. If you're going to bring your fishing pole, be sure to also bring your fillet board and your favorite breading.