Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Some things are just unbelievable!

Sorry for the rant....I just had to vent to keep myself from Locking and loading to solve this problem once and for all.

Just got an email updating our now 4 year legal battle over our property access. Since by Missouri State law, a landowner MUST be granted access to their property, but we were just legally denied that right, you have to wonder why more people don't actually go postal rather than just wanting to.... Our "easement" stops 50 feet short of any public road and the public road the state built 80 years ago was deemed to be imaginary....unreal!!!!

From my attorney (after 75K in legal fees)....

The Southern District affirmed Ellsworth - it would be unbelievable except for the tortured history of this case. Basically, the court punted by finding that Ellsworth heard the testimony and is entitled to make credibility determinations.

This is bogus, it is what appellate courts rely on when they have no other basis to affirm a trial court. In doing so, I think that the appellate court misapplied the law. Another tell-tale sign that the court knew it was punting and misapplying the law is that it refused to publish the opinion, which is how it avoids letting bad decisions be relied upon in future cases!!!

Our options at this point are to accept this and negotiate with Goforths to build out the alternative easement or to seek transfer to the Supreme Court for Missouri.

I have been to the Supreme Court twice and won both times, which is a good record. Frankly, each appeal gets more difficult to win, but I see holes in this opinion that may well get the attention of the Supremes and they may grant review.

Obviously, there are costs associated with another appeal, apart from fees. Let's chat before making any decisions, but I want to let you know that I am willing to do the legal work for payment of fees outstanding, so long as you carry the costs. In other words, you pay for the printing, filing, etc., and the bill for my fees won't increase.

Digest this, vomit, then vomit again and let's set up a time to talk. Frankly, I think you need to consider this as part of your criminal defense as well, because basically this means that you did not have rights to use the road and as you know, the local, hometown prosecutor wants to send you to jail for several months for trespassing on your own property.

Sorry the news wasn't good!

sure makes any issues I might have sound quite trivial
sorry, Rman

Sorry to hear this Rex, this case it truly unbelievable.

I wonder what this option would cost... "Our options at this point are to accept this and negotiate with Goforths to build out the alternative easement."

Have you looked into any negotiations with the Goforths?

Jeez, $75K in legal fees, this is terrible.

This is a slim shot, but can you try to get any local media to showcase your problem?

I dunno, Rex, is this "you paid for it" material?

i love that series.

-skinny

Man Rex that really sucks! And on top of that how does your attorney sleep at night fleecing you for so much money and basically accomplishing nothing?

I've had issues with the government but yours really takes the cake!

Definitely a bummer, Rex. Good luck in considering your direction at this point.

Cecil, your comment about his lawyer strikes me as pretty far off base, though I suppose you may just be expressing sympathetic frustration for Rex's situation with the first convenient target.

Cecil...The suit has become very personal and contentious for our lawyer as well...This is a cut and dried case of Good Ole Boy Law in a poor, low population county with no real oversight...they do what the want, when they want, and how they want. Laws and rights in the REAL world as they are applied are nothing remotely similar to how they were meant to be applied and adhered to in these courts...The Appeals court we had to go to was a simple extension of that pattern and their rulings are opposite of the other two appeals districts...bottom line, short of shooting all involved like the hillbilly system they follow calls for, I have to take the hits and waste big bucks just to sell the place.

We've been billed 75K+ in fee's...our lawyer has written off 65K in legitimate hours he could bill us for...and an appeal to the State Supreme Court costs a minimum 50K that he has already said he will not charge us.....printing and costs would top 10K for an appeal.

If there was ANY doubt the fix was already in as to what the true outcome of our appeal would be...we knew we would lose when the opposing counsel never even bothered to show up and argue the merits.

I stand corrected gentlemen in this case and I'm not blind enough to paint an entire profession in the same light.

However Todd even you have to admit there are many in the law profession that don't earn what they get, and make the rest of the hard working lawyers look bad. I've seen all kinds of things from lawyers that are too lazy to file something, therefore losing a case, but have at the same time no shame in charging the client through the nose, to actual crooked ones that pay off the judge (yes I know of one case for sure, but there is no way in hell I would have gotten involved as I didn't hold the cards the judge did.) Both the judge and the lawyer are dead now anyway.

I had a cousin pay a lawyer when a person defaulted on payment of a car he sold him. When all was said and done my cousin owned more to the lawyer than the car was worth. Sorry I have a problem with that.

In today's legal system the one with the most resources to hire the best legal team wins (as in big corporations or ask OJ), or can at least stall until the one with the least resources gets tapped out, I have a problem with that too.

So sorry I'm a little cynical with SOME lawyers and with many in our legal system.

BTW I'm thinking this will be deleted by a lawyer. What irony.

Jeff...they offered to sell us 3 acres worth $1500 for the low, bargain basement price of $30,000.....This jerk has already fenced off most of our land and is claiming it is his, although both his and our surveys have been done and the lines are clearly marked.

I was charged with trespassing for using the road THEY testified was public and the same Prosecutor said the guy is doing nothing criminal, yet The same prosecutor promised me I would do the maximum 364 days in jail...in open court, if I continued my lawsuit.

The other half of this fiasco hasn't even started to go to court.....he did over $50,000 in damages to our property when he had a dam built that failed 3 times flooding our property worse each time and destroying lots of landscaping work as well as land equipment....the damages that have happened to our trailer, plumbing, tractor with 50 hours on it that has been setting in the elements as well as our truck for two years is unknown as we can't get to the place any other way than the now blocked road.

Cecil...I am fighting several of those totally unethical lawyers and Judges....mine is a good guy that has fought for us hard at every turn...he has become personally vested in winning this for us on the sheer principals of doing what is right and fighting these others.

I wish there was a chance Sunil....where we are fighting this, it is definitly who you know and how long has your family lived there....the largest paper is in Springfield with a small circulation and no real reporters. The only larger media sources are Kansas City and St. Louis. I would think they could be interested in looking into it since 1000's of locals own property in the area involved and could show how the "City" people are used to pay the tax base for the area, only to be shut out of their legal rights in the local courts systems....the Conference is in the heart of this messy area....lol My land is about an hour away from Big Cedar....Maybe Johnny Morris could help........

Rex,

As I said I stand corrected on that and I apologize although I still have a problem with the fees lawyers charge a "captive audience." I have to wonder if someone can write off so much income if they could perhaps, just perhaps, be charging too much. I remember reading a law firm that worked for my state charged $900.00 per hour. WTF!

I was mainly addressing Todd's apparent feeling that I was insulting lawyers in general.

BTW the lawyer I was referring to that paid off a judge was one of those Good Ol'boys as was the judge.

Rex I hope your able to eventually win this case or atleast have a just settlement, unfortunately the system is rigged so that you have to spend obscene amounts of money to try and get justice with no guarantee.
I'm also speaking from experience and 42k poorer, but did win, sometimes a little frontier justice looks tempting.

Hang tough, were rooting for you.

A Judge, a Prosecutor, and a defense attorney walk into a sperm bank--------

That works up here. Get some media exposure if you can.

The party in the wrong wont like it, even if it is a Judge.

Sorry to hear about all of this Rex.

No, my comment was rather directed towards the fact that it seemed like misplaced anger at Rex's situation - instead of taking it out on the a-hole neighbor and the seriously questionable local court system that handled it, you took an automatic shot at Rex's lawyer. I've spoken to Rex a handful of times on this thing and understand that he has indicated a good relationship with this guy.

I agree with you that every profession has bad seeds and they do, in fact, make it difficult for the ethical folks to maintain a good image. That is exactly why I have a tough time sitting back and letting people fire away at my profession without offering a counterpoint. There are too many easy jokes and if I am to stand up for the dignity that underlies my profession, I have to at least present another view. That's all. Not taking a shot at you or your feelings about Rex's situation. It frustrates me to no end to see how he's getting rooked, but it doesn't make me lose faith in the whole system and lash out about one aspect of it - fees - that really isn't even at the heart of the problem. I'll stick to the main points and leave tangential issues for another discussion.

Hug?

Todd,

Yes, lets just hug and leave it at that.

So it seems that there really won't be any way to solve this problem at the "local" level.

Does anyone know of any kind of National Advocacy Groups that fight for land owner rights?

Rex, really sorry to hear that you're going thru this. A lot of us have been in
similar situations, and it's hard for us "little guys" to win it seems. Sunil had
a good idea, maybe some outside public pressure might force the
"good 'ol boys" to do the right thing. Good luck...

Todd Respect..Empathy..for your position! You think your profession comes with some baggage? Try a career in sales! I haven't been able to publish my telephone # in years, not that I'm trying to hide from anyone its just that the general public is by and large CRAZY! Quick case in point. One saturday morning I sell a new Honda Goldwing to a nationally known orthopedic surgeon(with more money than Solomon) from Charlotte NC. He rides away ecstatic loving me, the bike and life. An hour later I sell a new Suzuki GSXR1000 to a STRAIGHT UP GANGSTUH (with more money than the doc plus two glock 10's tucked up under his Tall Tee). He rides away with his grill gleamin! A week later they both sue the dealership...the doc says I quoted him incorrect bore/stroke #'s (not) and the gangsta says I told him this was a very fast bike (is) but someone in a Cobra beat him. WTH???

Although the price per acre is outrageous this might still be the least expensive option.

This is just a terrible situation it saddens me that you're having to go through this Rex.

Rex, I feel for ya man. You and I talked, and you know what my solution would be.

Todd:

When Rex wins the case, is there any way that he could sue the other guy and recoup his legal expenses? If he then didn't get paid, could he put a lien on the neighbors property? Just thinking without researching here.....

Scott, if not for an extended stay on the the taxpayers dime, I would use that solution...lol

As for expenses/fee recovery, it would be up to a Judge to grant that, and order the costs to be reimbused...very unlikely to happen. If we had won at the local level, in that County, a property lien would have been automatic. If we got granted a new trial, it would go back there and start over. If the ruling were to be reversed, we would probably have to file a new suit now to recover anything....Rights are damned expensive to enforce.

Do a search for propertey advocacy groups and I think you might find some help.

Here's one that supports litigation:
http://aaspo.org/about/

Granted, I haven't gone through any of these in detail, but again, it's worth pursuing.

Sunil, Thanks!

The group sounds like it is exactly the sort of help needed....but they have no contact info I could find on the site.

I'll definitely be reasearching and seeking them out.