Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site The dream of a pond.

OK, my first post after months of reading PB and years of the wife and I dreaming of a pond.
Lots of questions and very few answers as of now. Here is what we do know at this point.
Site choice- It just screams build a pond here. The problem, site choice is based from our opinion as to the view it would allow us to enjoy. As of now we have no clue as to the engineering and if it would work in this location.
We have contacted the local NRCS agency and the gentleman at first conversation was a little discouraging over the phone. However, the wife is persistent and we have requested that he plan a visit to take a look. I have the mind set that the agency is somewhat obligated to provide their expertise based from the facts of the site. The decision would then be ours after the requirements have been presented.
I want to reach out to fellow PB members to see if others can vision a pond in our selected location. I will attempt to attach pictures of the site in several views.
Here is some additional information that I have dug up from the NRCS web soil survey-
Our location is “fine sandy loam” with a rating of “somewhat limited” for levees, dykes, and embankments.
Water source is a big unknown and maybe a bigger issue. The location has 2 areas of directed run off from the area around it. There are 2 culverts under the side road that allow surface water to drain onto our property and the selected pond location. I’m not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I could make the pond smaller and eliminate one of the natural valleys that drain the surrounding surface area. I will attempt to identify the locations on the attached pictures.
At this time we are willing to go the expense if needed to drill a well as a water source. Once again we have no clue as to if this is feasible or practical. I want to think that the water is in the ground if we are willing to pay the price. I think we would also have the issue as we dig down of maybe hitting the water table.
Also the well for the house is about 200’ away and would be below the dam location.
So we are wondering if this could too be an issue.
I hope we have a visit from the NRCS next week, I will update with his input.
According to the NRCS web site the area would be just over an acre with dam A and just shy with Dam location B.
So for now I guess I’m looking for support or opinion to keep that dream alive.
There is also a creek about 900’ feet south of the proposed dam site. Could this be a possible alternative water source? I would not have power at the creek location however I can provide power at the pond site.
Thanks for any input/reply.
VA7thson

Welcome to the Forum #7!!! We're happily getting several new members from your area!


The pictures are hard to get a good perspective of how the land lies, but it sure is purty!

It stinks that you may have one of the "less than exuberant" NRCS Agents. Do you know if there is any significant amounts of clay in the hills surrounding your pond sites? That may be the key, along with budget and desire as to whether the dream stays alive or not.

Personally, I wouldn't consider Dam site B because of the reduced inflow, but mostly from the fear of erosion from heavy runoff in the draw behind it.

Except for the supply line route of your well, there should be no issue there.

I can't imagine that if there are two culverts in the road draining onto your property that your watershed is only 2 acres, unless the culverts would not drain into the pond....Unkown/uncontrollable watershed contaminants is always a concern to think about....Try to find out what is in the watershed Trees, Cows, Hogs, Radioactive Green glowing sunfish, etc).

Are there ponds near you? Do they hold water? Talk to the pond owners and see what problems they ran into and ask who built the ponds. Also talk to local well drillers...they will know if good clay is there and how deep it may be.

All in all, it is a beautiful site for a pond and maybe a well and liner could become an option if a natural pond isn't feasible.

First, a very big welcome to Pond Boss.

Second, what part of Virginia are you in? I see mountains in the photos, which makes me think you must be west of I-95.

My friend Rex (Rainman)posted just before me, so some things could be redundant -- but with just a short review of his post, I fully agree with what he says.

We had a gathering yesterday, just west of Winchester, VA, of pond experts, dirt moving experts, soil scientists, and and other knowledgeable pond and fisheries people. We were discussing with the Pond Boss himself, Mr. Bob Lusk, how easy it is to build ponds across the Northern and Western parts of Virginia, and much of West Virginia -- since it is predominately heavy clay, and we have an abundance of rain, even during droughts.

Your photos, and your description of the stream, sure make it sound like a pond is feasible.

Give us a little more info. The NCRS usually has a pretty good staff, but from the photos and writeup, something just ain't right.

If you are persistent, like one the long-time Pond Boss participants who was involved in our meetings yesterday, I think you could be successful in this dream. There are many innovative paths that won't bankrupt the bank account. Our persistent friend found a very low cost source of pond-sealing bentonite at a kitty-liter facility in southern Pennsylvania.

Maybe we can help.

Ken

Thanks rainman and catmandoo,
I guess I should clarify that only the phone conversation was “a little discouraging” to the wife when speaking with the local agent. I will hold judgment until I speak with him onsite.
He did agree to make a trip, he had some personal time off and said he would call us upon his return after a little catch up work that would be waiting on him, we hope this week. We are in SW VA. And yes there are many ponds in the area. A few are mud holes however most look great. Some are stream feed and others are surface only. I have not tried to speak to any owners as of yet or any dirt movers or well drillers. Before I started that process I wanted to speak with the local NRCS agent. I do not have a lot of connections or contacts in the area so when I start that fact finding mission I will have to seek them out. I figure if a dirt mover has exp. and references that will get me started. As for the clay around I’m not sure. I do not want a mud hole or a half full pond so we will do what it takes as far as the “homework” before the first piece of equipment hits the property. I feel that I have the basic information and the resources of PB to enter this project with a full scope and understanding of the information needed. Thanks to everyone on PB. I will be a subscriber shortly, I did not want to jump the gun and learn the dream will not happen.
Just to let everyone know how long this has been a thought. About 5 years ago we had the power company move the power lines that use to run right through the middle of what we hope is our pond. That took 3 new polls and some additional underground wire. We bought the place for the property not the house. That is another story and project. Yes, she wants a new house to view the pond…

OK, NRCS agent made a trip to the property today. It’s official they will not be any help.
His only advice was to make sure that we get the appropriate permits from the county and
that I do not have much surface area for a source of water.

That's the way it is in this county, but the guy 2 counties over is a great guy to work with (or was a great guy, he retired).

Yeah, I had a similar experience early on with my pond idea. Don't get bummed out yet - move on and collect some more opinions.

If you havn't already, get a copy of the USDA Agricultural Handbook 590. Many factors to consider, but it suggests that in SW Virginia you may need about 2 acres of drainage area to sustain each acre-foot of pond.

Also, check out your local Soil & Water Conservation District website and give them a call. Someone there may be able to help you answer the question of what's adequate drainage area in your part of VA.

As far as I can tell from the area around my potential pond site I do not have the required water shed needed. I’ve outlined the approx. area that would drain and according to the info it is around 4 acres of surface area. I may even be stretching it some, although I think there is more than what I have identified from further up the road. This of course can be an uncontrolled source to allow radioactive waste or other surface contaminants. During long periods of rain or heavy rainfall we have a small stream running to/through the site.
I’m now not sure if I should just bite the bullet $$$ and talk with an engineering group that has pond experience. One of my many thoughts is that if I just start there I will save time and hopefully be assured that it is correct. As I said previously I feel that if I do not have the watershed I would be willing to drill a new well to supplement the required water. Lots of dirt movers around and with the economy the way it is they are fairly hungry for work. I’m afraid of hearing what I want to hear not what I need to hear, so they can get the work. I’ve already had multiple opinions at both ends of the scale as to the dirt and location (although not from professional’s just locals). Is pond building not pretty much down to a science based from the facts?
Summery- should I hire an engin$$r right from the start or be patient and seek several opinions from dirt movers. Lots have dug holes for farms however most farmers around are not concerned with water fluctuation or appearance, they just want addition water source for the cows to have a drink…

There IS a difference between pond builders and dirt movers. Everybody has their specialty, and while building a pond is mostly done from sound engineering principles, there is a bit of black magic involved because you never 100% know what you will run into underground until the hole is dug.

A good pond builder will be able to do the same thing as the engineering group that you are talking about. I think that if you were to find a good pond builder you would only have to spend that engineering $$$ once.

In any case, check references and see if you can visit any of the completed ponds, talking with the pond owners.

Lots of difference in constructing a home for fish and a wet hole in the ground. Hang around and read about the difference.

Thanks Esshup and David for the reply,
I think its time to have the wife man the phones and start calling around to the contractors. As I said earlier my time during business hours is limited do to work so I will have her start the preliminary calls.
I hope this weekend to do a little shad tree surveying to see just what it would take at the location. I will also dig a cpl holes to get a little dirt for my own information and try the mud ball and bucket test. One of the uncertainties that I have is the elevation change at the location and if it is practical/possible. I think the lower end at the dam will have to be built up and the upper end dug out in order to create the surface area. Once I do little shad tree surveying I will have an idea of the elevations. As the land lays now if the dam was placed across the ravine as I envision, it would have to be fairly high to have the size that I vision. My hope is that with a combination of digging out the up hill side it will supply the fill needed for the dam and keep the dam height with in reason. I love the mountains but hope it will not take one to dam up the pond site.
My measurements will be crude but should be enough to throw some numbers out to others for input of practicality.
P

Another way instead of just using the bucket test.

Mike Otto, pond digger extraordinaire, gets kids to make a wet ball of the soil and throw it against the side of his pickup. If it sticks, he cranks the dozer.

Hey, thanks for the scientific approach. Now I need a little advise on the “black Magic”. I do have several chickens if needed…
With all the rain we have been having do you think I can take a cpl of the mud balls and stuff them in the holes that have water coming out of them to divert the water and too plug up the potential drain when the ground dries up…

While that might work, I'll bet as soon as you turn and walk away it'll start leaking again. Unfortunately fixing a pond leak isn't an easy proposition. That's why it's recommended that if someone wants to build a pond they should try like heck to do it right from the start. Fixing a bad pond usually costs almost as much as digging a new one.

“Still dreaming” update
I've now had two engineers at the site. The first est. is 7k just for the engineering stamps and permit prep etc including a site visit from a consultant for the first step of a feasibility study. This will include the research or answers of can I pump from the creek to have additional water supply if needed bla bla bla. The dirt mover has only given a very rough est of around 30k. Everything is still very early but moving forward. It appears the days of just getting a dirt mover are over. The county requires permits and more bla bla bla or is that $ $ $ and with satellite and flyover surveys every cpl years they will confront home owners and the days of do it and ask for forgiveness are over.
I should have the 2nd engineering est in about a week. These guys got to be hungry with the constructions business hurting. My goal or budget is 5k for permits and engineering, The dirt mover is still to soon to even gue$$ other than the 30k
So as of now I’m thinking 35 to 40 k for a .5 to .75 acre pond OUCH. Is this way out of line $$$. Would love to hear what others think

Wow! Here it's basically just dig and go.

Holy Cow....I hope it was just dig and go here cause thats all I did. Guess I'll find out

OMG!!! I spent 28 grand on 11 acres with a 1 acre pond on it already!!! OUCH!!! That is a tough pill to swallow!!

wow virgina policies stink i heart the ga right now after reading that

Rc, sounds like you got a good deal??? 11 acres here with no pond 25-35 grand now days..

My five acres on a pond appraised and $5750 an acre..

Anyways sounds like those engineers are money hungry, keep researching and searching..

I would think an acre pond should easily be accoumplished under 15-20k just my opinion

I just sold a beautiful place with a creek and 3/4 acre pond. 71.5 acres with deer, hogs, etc. $2,950 per acre 70 miles from D/FW. I took the first offer I got. Of course, it took 2.5 years to even get an offer.

By now I expect the pond and creek are both dried up.

What ?

Yeah I was pretty happy about it! Arkansas has some decent prices on land though. Cost of living here is not that bad! If you can put up with the humidity that is!!!

A litte off track of the process,price and regs to build but what is it they say? LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. A lot of just over 1 acre across the street from my pond site $22,000. All I can do is smile as it gives me a great comp for my $2,800 I pd