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#249681 02/27/11 11:13 AM
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This was caught in my pond this summer and I don't have any idea what it is. This particular one was about 6 inches in length. My pond is full of them. Right now my pond is frozen over, but I drilled a few holes in it a few days ago. After a couple hours I went back out there and the hole was absolutely packed full of minnows about 2 inches in length. The minnows are not of any gamefish that I know of, and I'm guessing they are smaller versions of the pictured fish. Bottomline, I think my pond is exploding with these things. I bought this property in July and have been busy with other stuff so I dont know much of what is in the pond, other than these things. I've fished a few times for a couple minutes and that's all I've ever caught. Any help would be appreciated.



Last edited by k_kindig11; 02/27/11 11:19 AM.
k_kindig11 #249688 02/27/11 11:31 AM
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Look's like some type of skinny carp. Do you have a stream entering your pond? Could be a type of chub but I have never seen chubs reproduce well in a pond.

Cody Veach #249689 02/27/11 11:34 AM
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Looks like a golden shiner, but doesn't seem as flattened in profile as they usually are

txelen #249694 02/27/11 12:09 PM
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That is a skinny, hungry golden shiner. That's not good that they are coming to the hole in the ice. That means that you have low oxygen levels in the pond, and probably have had a partial winterkill.

If there's a way to open up the water, do it asap. Either by running a hose on the ice, dropping an aerator thru a hole in the ice or by any other means possible.

It's been a bad winter here in Indiana with long periods of ice on the ponds, and many days of snow on the ground. That limits the light getting thru the ice and photoplankton cannot make oxygen without sunlight.

How big is the pond, and how deep is it? Are there any submerged weeds, high organic loading (lots of leaves in the pond, etc.)?

What other fish (size and species) are in the pond?

Where's my manners? Welcome to Pond Boss! Where in N. Indiana are you? There's a few of us scattered about up in the northern part of the state.

Here's what a healthy fat one looks like:


Last edited by esshup; 02/27/11 12:14 PM.

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esshup #249706 02/27/11 02:03 PM
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WOW! That is one seriously emaciated golden shiner!

CJBS2003 #249739 02/27/11 06:12 PM
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First, I'd like to say thanks for the welcome to the boards, and thanks for all of your quick responses. I love to fish and am excited to get my pond in good condition, so all help is much appreciated.

I am located just outside of Tippecanoe, Indiana which is in northern Indiana. I am about 1/2 mile from a branch of the Tippecanoe River, but the pond has no connection to the river.

I have been worried about low oxygen levels in the pond since it froze over because of the low water levels due to the lack of rain this past summer/fall, and I do think oxygen levels are extremely low because of that and the rough winter. I actually went out there a few days after I saw all those minnows and the open holes were filled with dead minnows. Honestly I wasn't too worried about it this year, because I don't think there are too many "good" fish in the pond probably because of past winter kills, and the pond is going to need a renovation anyway. This spring I am going to have an aerator installed to hopefully help prevent future winter kills.


Some pond background so maybe you can get an idea of what I've got here... this is all that I know in the 6 months that I've owned it...

The pond right now is only about 6' at it's deepest and only about an acre maybe in size, but this summer when the water was at proper levels it was about 8 or 9' and about 1 1/2 acres I'm guesssing. The pond is made up of rainwater/runoff. No creek or river or other source of water for about 1/2 mile. I think the pond may have a weak spring under it since I did find a few weak spots in the ice but it was (and still is) completely frozen over.

This summer the pond was absolutely packed with frogs. Thousands of frogs. The pond is generally, like I said, about 8 or 9 feet in the center for about an acre or under, then it kind of branches out into shallower swamp-like portions that are normally only about 2 or 3' deep. It is also completely surrounded by trees so I'm sure it gets lots of leaves in it. There was no algae on the top of the water this summer, and I only snagged a few weeds in the deepest parts of the pond. But they were at the very bottom only. No weeds are visible. The water is a muddy brown color and so visibility is probably only about 6 or 8 inches. The ground isn't really clay or "muck", but if I had to describe it, I'd say it's like a sandy mud combination. Can you tell I'm not a biologist.. smile

As far as things I'd really like to do, but I don't know if they will happen at all, or atleast in the near future:

1) Have the pond dug out to increase depth and hopefully rid of some of the organic matter in the pond. My only issue is, a significant amount of trees would probably have to be removed to get that done and I don't know if I'm ok with that.

2) I would like to have a geothermal heating unit put in my house and dump the excess water into the pond. It seems to me that the fresh water expelled in to the pond would do it good and it would probably keep it from freezing completely over as well. Or atleast it would stay open where the incoming water was at. My only concern with that is, once the pond fills to it's capacity in the event of large amounts of rain combined with my geothermal water, I'm not sure where the water would go. I have no ditch or creek to overflow the water to.

As far as other fish in the pond, the only thing I've caught are these golden shiners. I did see one abandoned fish bed this summer near the shore that to me looked like a bass bed. I also did put a couple hundred bluegill and crappie in the pond this summer that I relocated from another friend's pond, but I never could catch any a couple months after putting them in there. So I don't know if they were/are living after I put them in.

About the golden shiners, should I do something about the large populations? Can I put a certain fish in there that would help control the shiner and frog populations? Bass? Would the shiners have anything to do with the murky water, or would that be mainly from the organic matter that's in the pond? Also, since the golden shiners are obviously doing ok in the pond (other than the low oxygen level), does this mean bass, bluegill, crappie, etc should do ok in the pond's current condition (again barring the low oxygen level if I get that in check) or are these shiners more tolerant to varying water conditions?

SO... my first plan this summer is to install an aerator. I talked to a wildlife biologist via email that had been to my property about 4 years ago and she thought the lack of gamefish in my pond was most likely from past fish kills. Do you think the aerator will solve the low oxygen level problem in the winter? And from what I've got from this site already is to put the aerator in a shallower spot to prevent freezing the fish during the winter. From there, does anyone have a gameplan on what I should do to get the pond in a good, fish-friendly condition?

Thanks for all of your input. I realized I just put a TON of info out there so you can comment on whatever you like. I may need to have this thread moved now to a different topic since you guys nailed down that mystery fish for me!

k_kindig11 #249749 02/27/11 08:08 PM
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What are your goals for the pond? Have you fired up one of the planimeter websites to get a better estimate of surface area?

6' is pretty shallow for a pond that freezes over. Aeration or a surface agitator will probably be needed to prevent future winter-kills if you don't dig it out.

Largemouth Bass would control shiners and frogs. Stocking Largemouth will require additionally stocking Bluegill for a balanced pond ecosystem.


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txelen #249752 02/27/11 08:15 PM
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Really all I'd like out of the pond is an occasional place to fish or take little kids fishing from time to time to catch some decent fish. No plans on swimming in it or anything like that. I haven't accurately estimated surface area. Just going by what the wildlife biologist told me. I will definitely get the aerator in there. That's kind of what I was thinking as well as far as the bass and bluegill goes to control the shiner and frog populations.

k_kindig11 #249757 02/27/11 08:29 PM
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Hey King welcome to the PBF! Your D.O. issue is your biggest problem at this point. If you going to have a system put in some guys put one in the middle of the pond and one in the shallow about 1/3 the depth of your pond in the winter. Where your at you may want to consider Walleye in your pond! Unless you just have to have Bass! Either one would do the job on the Golden Shiners. Like you said though get your T's crossed and your I's dotted before you put any fish in there. Get a water sample taken maybe a soil sample and see what your dealing with. If you get your D.O. right and your water is still waaaay to acidic or way to alkaline you could still have trouble.


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
RC51 #249768 02/27/11 08:56 PM
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He could just catch a Muskie or 2 out of the Tippy and use them to control the fish in the pond. (just kidding)

The aerator will help during the winter. Put the diffuser at 1/3 the total pond depth. If you are looking for one close by, Ted Lea in Ohio is a great person to deal with.
http://www.cleanponds.com/

The LMB will help clean up the Golden Shiners. I'd toss in some BG to round out the mix. The biggest problem you'll face is keeping the fish alive during the winter. Larger fish die first.


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RC51 #249769 02/27/11 08:57 PM
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k kindig, you may want to cut and paste your most recent post and start a new thread in the general Questions and Observations sub forum... I think you'll get more feed back as this post may slip by many on here. I am no expect on north Indiana ponds, but there are a couple of members on here who are in your area and may be able to give you some very personal first hand experience. Especially members esshup and Cecil Baird. You may have a pond that is directly tied to ground water levels, much like esshup. This maybe why your water level is so dramatic in changes...

As others have already said, 6' is very shallow for a northern pond where ice can form and stay for much of the winter. Here in VA we can get away with a 6' deep pond most if not all winters, up north not the case... This may be a big reason why you only have golden shiners(GSH) in your pond. GSH are very low DO tolerant and thus can survive harsh low DO winter ice cover far better than game fish such as bass.

Consider searching the archives on crappies in ponds, they are usually not recommended. As of right now, your biggest concern is the shallow nature of your pond. It may be best to consider a complete renovation of it. Drain it, dredge it to at least the 12' to 14' depth range and if possible, perhaps as deep as 20' to account for a drop in water levels so you have a buffer. Then you can look at restocking it. Then you can manage the pond with a fresh start and really produce a high quality fishery!

CJBS2003 #249770 02/27/11 08:58 PM
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Looks like esshup(Scott) found your post... Scott, share your ground water pond issues, I could be wrong but maybe you two are in the same boat?

CJBS2003 #249841 02/28/11 03:39 PM
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He may have a groundwater pond. Currently, my pond is down about 75" from full pool due to the low rainfall last year and this winter. Sandy soil and groundwater ponds don't go together! When I renovated my pond, we dug it 22' deep. Hurricane Ike came thru about 3 weeks later and washed about 4' of sand into the pond. With my water level down I still have 11' to 12' of water in the pond. If I hadn't renovated the pond, and didn't have an aerator, I'd be looking at a massive winterkill of fish this year.


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esshup #249849 02/28/11 04:15 PM
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Thanks to all for your replies. Looks like I need to get someone out here to dig the thing out deeper. I do have a wildlife biologist coming out this spring to evaluate my pond and hopefully she will take water and soil samples as well to see exactly what I'm dealing with.

k_kindig11 #249860 02/28/11 04:56 PM
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The NRCS is another free resource for soils information. Each county has an office (USDA NRCS).


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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