Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Suggestions for existing 7 acre lake

Well im trying to get a jump this year and want to continue my fish program here at the ranch.

History: We have a 7 acre lake here on the place that I want to setup as a solid balanced fishery. I will attach some photos at the bottom. It is 40+ yrs old, and a rather deep BOW. The only real shallow area of the lake is in the back cove which consist of about 1acre of flooded stumps around 1-6ft deep. The rest of the lake pretty much slips off into 10ft or more depth with about 2-3 acres along the dam ranging from 20-35ft deep.

What has been done so far:
The lake was bass heavy and pretty low in BG numbers. Bass in the 12-18" range mostly, and not skinny but not fat either, just normal looking ole bass.

For the past two seasons we took out 20 lbs per acre the first year than 15lbs per acre last year.

Nothing else in the lake but bass and BG.

I devoted a .2 acre pond this year to growing my own CNBG and have successfully transfered ~4000 3-5" CNBG last summer/fall. Also, I am growing my own Florida bass and F1's and have transfered around 16 12-14" Floridas and 12 12-14" F1's. Tagged and documented.

Goal:
I don't want really have a desire for any other predator fish. What i would like to do is get the FLorida genetics established and start naturally producing some F1's in the lake. I want the CNBG/Bg numbers to be at max for producing nice healthy bass. I don't want to attempt a trophy bass lake and deplete the bass #'s down to the point where its hard to catch anything, I just want it balanced. I think a balanced fishery will easily produce big fish in my opinion, 5 lbs or bigger is big to me.
Also as shown in the photos I have done some major clearing on the land surrounding the lake and have pushed in some big 10-30ft trees in along the bank every 20yrs or so all the way around. The lake is about 4ft low now so once full in the spring it will have some awesome structure setup. I pushed in ~30 full size trees and tossed in 30 christmas trees to find a home wherever the wind blows them.

What else to do:
I want to dump in another load of CNBG. I have probably 1000-2000 CNBG in my small growout pond anywhere from 2-6". I want to make sure i have plenty in to jumpstart the system.

I will add maybe 10-20 more 12"+ Florida bass this year.

Take out around 20 lbs bass per acre this year and take a look at catch rates after 20lbs is reached or if its reached.

OK, now that i've laid it all out, i need some suggestions on what is most beneficial for me to do to help push the lake.
Here are my thoughts: Im kind of shying away from T-shad as they are $$$$ and might not make it and i might even lose them to the cold which didn't seem possible untill the last two yrs. See the photo, we had snow in texas 2yrs straight. Finally i have to maintain a solid bloom in the lake which im not up for yet, unless it does it naturally once the 60 grass carp have worked on it for another year.

Tilapia: Not sure here either, i've used them in other ponds and think they benefit the BG more than the bass really. Just based on what I see in my bass growout ponds, soon as they spit out the 1/8" fry the BG wipe 99% of them out. I've seen this over and over again. I just don't see how a decent % make it to 3-5" for bass to benefit from directly. I do have another .2 acre pond that I could make a Tilapia Production pond and move 2"+ fish over during the summer but I've never heard much on Tilapia forage ponds and if they are worth the work...

Feeding: This seems to attract my attention most. For $1000 i can dump in 2000lbs of Game fish Chow a year boosting my forage in the lake probably far more than say $1000 of tilapia (125lbs)could ever do especially when such a small % of offspring make it past the mouths of BG. If I want to produce more bg/CNBG i'll feed them pellets, not tilapia fry. its just more efficient per dollar i'd think to feed.

I'd rather put 10lbs of tilapia in my .2 acre pond by themself and try a forage pond if i thought it would be worth it. Anyone ever did a tilapia forage pond... I need imput on that id it could be a real beneficial option.

All in all i'd like to get some suggetions on things to do to help push the lake to meet my goals the best most efficient way possible.

Ok here comes the photos and i'll shut up. They are taken showing the lake from left to right standing on the start of the dam.

Chad, did the weeds ever get under control?

I kinda like the tilapia feeding the BG which feed the bass.

I personally doubt that you can deplete the bass down to the point that the fishing will suffer on 40 acres. It's just too much work.

Feed should help a good bit; some for the BG and the larger stuff for the LMB if you can get them feed trained.

Dave, this lake is 7 acres, it doens't have near the problem as the other lake your talking about. we'll see this year if a difference is made.

on the tilapia feeding the BG. It just seems not effecient vs. feeding, with Tilapia conversion at 10lbs-1lb BG and feeding at roughly 2 to one ratio... Maybe im not looking at it the right way though.

One other note to add to the mix. The water has been pretty clear as long as i can remember, as it has a pondweed/coontail problem around the edges and in the cove thats causing this.

Im am thinking about dropping in 1qt of whitecap and deleting the moss problem and hopefully getting the lake to bloom naturally as I don't see why it wouldn't probably for the whole year with my experience with whitecap...

If I do this and the lake blooms + having the proposed feeding program, it might make the lake produce exponentially more than the last 10yrs of no feeding and clear water... Might be just what I need to do.

Kill the moss and get productive water instead of trying to force high productivity with shad/tilapia/feed in clear water...

just another thought

Thought i'd add some more photos for fun.

Here is what my home grown floridas looked like when we dropped them in.


Finally, couple shots of my home grown CNBG we put in last year. didn't take to many photos as i was trying to move them as fast as posible, this is my brother giving them a dunk in saltwater then dropping one of many scoops in the lake.

That little Florida is a pig. I also like the idea of the salt water dunk. Never done it though.

Dave, that Florida was exactly 1yr old and around 12" long i believe. This coming March will be year 2 for my original florida stockers. I was getting some 14-15" fish in October that were closing in the 2 lb range. Im happy with the plan i started.

The most pleasing thing though is how aggressive these Floridas are turning out to be. I believe that being that we are moving them via hook/line we are moving the most aggressive Floridas of the pack. We have been catching them almost everytime we go to are larger ponds were they were stocked. To give an example 25 are in 4 acres. 3wks ago my brother caught 4 of them in 2 hours out of the 12 fish total he caught. Also Only 10 were moved to our 30 acre lake. Already caught one of those also. What are the odds of that! They may get hook-shy later in life but i don't care really, they are in for genetics, not catching.


Anyways, anyone have any input on the 7 acre lake?

How much coontail do you have around the edges and in the cove? Lusk recommends about 20% cover.

Dave,

im gonna say we had about 1.5-2 acres of the back cove in coontail and it grows around the entire shoreline out to where it gets to deep for light to reach i guess. Its not a real deal killer on fishing the pond except for the fact that the coontail along with the minor pondweed areas keep the water just crystal clear. No way to even think about fertilizing it. Thats why i thought I might kill off the whole thing and hope it might bloom by itself this year. and then the 60 carp on there 2 yr now might handle anything for several years to come...

As we have previously discussed, last year was an odd year for plants. They boomed everywhere in the State. We fought FA on a friends Weatherford pond and nothing worked. Repeated sprayings and 80 pounds of tilapia did nothing for a 1.5 acre pond. So, I called in Lusk. This year we will start spraying early and keep spraying. Also will add aeration. He is also recommending microbes. I'm interested in seeing how that works and want to learn more about it.

Sixty carp SEEMS like it ought to work. They generally start early before the plants can get established.

Yeah, i have read all over that 20% coverage is the idea situation, but I find it almost impossible to do this in my situation with the coontail we have around here. Only way i see it happening is spraying throughout the year with reward/cutrine. We don't have the pocket book for that.

Its either you have a bad infestation like our 30 acre lake. Or you have a moderate problem like this 7 acre lake which keeps the water clear and keeps us from ever really doing something with the lake as far as fertile water goes.

Thats why i added all the structure i could and pushed all the trees in. I feel its all or nothing so i think i'll kill it off once and see how it works with the carp we have as far as how long it stays gone and how the water reacts to the nutrient boost. I need to do something, so i think for the money the whitecap will just start the lake over and if it last fine, if it doesn't and the weeds come back next year just as bad we'll probably just let it be. Its just tough when you start managing larger bOW's.



Anyways, I guess i'll just go with my own thoughts as far as killing the moss and looking to get the natural bloom and then spending money on feeding to best help my situation. Maybe i answered my own questions as it seems im not getting any new suggestions for now.

There's no good solution for killing the moss (algae) that I know of that won't affect the bloom. Phycomycin, Green clean type products, or your copper based algacides are some of your choices. Phyco was developed for treatment of blue-green algae in an aquaculture environment, and is supposed to be used on newly growing algae. It doesn't work so well on floating mats.

Since algae grows so fast, I think once you kill off the weeds and have the unused nutrients available, it'll be a race between FA and the bloom to see who wins. Hopefully the bloom will get started, and limit the FA to growing where the sunlight reaches. I also hope that the bloom doesn't get too dense with all the available nutrients once the weeds are gone.

Looks like Chad may be biting the bullet and buckling down on this coontail problem. I think this is a solid plan.

Dry conditions with most ponds and lakes around here having low water levels provide for low dilution risk with the use of fluridone. Timing is important. Application of fluridone (active ingredient in sonar or whitecap) for coontail control should be completed within about a 4 week window in April, hopefully before significant regrowth. The active ingredient needs to be in place when coontail starts to grow in order to be absorbed into plant tissue and provide a good kill. The lake can be fertilized about 1-2 weeks after fluridone application in order to boost plankton density. Most of the time we see lakes promoting plankton growth instead of FA growth after a fluridone app. Then bump with fertilizer as needed, or algaecides as needed, to steer in the right direction for the remainder of the 2011 growing season. Tilapia should be stocked to help consume detritus and FA related to dead coontail. Stock as many as you can, up to 30lbs per acre.

Keep in mind that this year you will see a drastic change in dynamics if your coontail treatment plan is successful. Fishing will change, ease of catchability may change, population dynamics will change. My recommendation is to provide significant new brush and/or other types of aquatic habitat to take the place of coontail vegetation, and allow for the largest existing size class of bass to take advantage of newly available forage migrating to new structure .

Chad Todd hits a very important point that Bob often stresses. The timing of the plant control and fertilization is critical. Reduce the bad plants and then quickly get a bloom to shade them out.

If the problem is in the 30 acre lake and also some in the 7 acre lake then you might want to look at a Jensen lake mower.


to Annamarie at info@lakemower.com , http://www.lakemower.com/

A tilapia growout pond will out produce a BG pond (forage weight) by several factors if the conditions are right. You will be moving a lot of fish. See if Todd can help.

Im actually hoping the lakes would produce a bloom by themself. I'd think the whitecap would last all summer and i don't know what else could take up the nutrient base besides FA which i doubt would take up that much...