Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New NP record on Bremer Pond

Excellent work Dwight! Pond management success story right there - and I know the manager!

I made some quick calculations of estimated gape size of NP and length of LMB the 39" NP could swallow. Maximum length of a largemouth that 39" NP could swallow is 17" assuming an average LMB body depth of 3.9"(100mm). Granted, LMB body depth would be less - more for a skinny or plump LMB. The two predator-prey papers that I used noted that NP often eat significantly smaller food items than the maximum size they could swallow. Thus, I assume that the 'average' size of LMB shaped prey that this NP was eating was in the 8"-13" size category. Interestingly the one paper noted that the feeding period of NP is normally for one short period every day or two unless the food items are proportionally too small. One NP stomach was found to be full of dragon fly nymphs and it no doubt took a fair amount of time to locate and consume 30-50 big 'bugs'. SPECIAL THANKS to Dr. Willis (South Dakota State Univ) for providing me the two research papers about feeding behavior of northern pike.

Thank you Bill/Dave for the observations based on this research. I think it lends some credence to the assertion that NP or Esox in general can be used, in some situations, as a fisheries management tool. I realize "it all depends", but if a fishery is experiencing overpopulation of stunted LMB, etc. - Esox just might be an effective tool. Certainly more efficient than catching and culling and it manages 24/7/365 - not just weekends like the angling method. Sure wish someone could do a study on Esox as a fisheries management tool -hint hint!

Good observation. Keep in mind they don't call NP hammer handles without cause. They tend to stunt much like LMB. There are a few threads here on the subject.

So that brings us to the use of single sex predators used for that purpose. IIRC there is no reproduction of NP in Dwight's lake - female only. I know a few girls only LMB lakes that do very well also. One advantage to NP as balancing predators is there feeding at low water temps when LMB , BG etc are lethargic. One disadvantage is NP relatively low max high temp feeding/efficiency and growth range. Another consideration is availability. I don't know any hatchery (may well be some up north) that sell NP while there is no shortage of LMB sources.

If I had to guess LMB are better pond predators for most geographic ranges (not however the far north). By better I mean more efficient for management purposes - energetics for controlling fish populations that tend to overpopulate. They have a bigger gape size quicker , eat more per unit of size/energy input over the temp range of more ponds. Don't discount HSB however as there is merit with them as well. It just depends on many factors as to which to use.

Great insights Eric...gosh I missed my PB fix the last few months!

Any news on progress of efforts to create a Triploid LMB yet? Would be easier to stock them than to try to sex LMB through angling - only a small window during the spawn that I could reliably sex a LMB. I think there would be a definite market for Triploid LMB....

TJ Bobby at Malones updated me late last summer. They are still attempting to make the triploid. They have invested alot of time and money but still not getting the results they expect.

Greg, what seems to be the hold up? Reliably being able to produce triploids through shocking the eggs? Or are they trying a different method than they use with grass carp?

Well, for any of us managing a SMB fishery interested in managing BG/PS/YP populations a triploid LMB would fit the bill nicely I think?

Consider me a buyer Greg whenever they get this figured out. Guaranteed Female LMB would also be of great interest to me and probably many others.

Hey - congrats again on the new addition to your family! Hope he had a great first Christmas!

TPWD has them but will not allow them except in their experimental ponds/lakes. I can dig up the how’s but as best I recall they had more than one method. Cost way too much to be a viable product for sale.

I think one thing to take into consideration, regarding using Esox species in a management situation, would be the fact that they may be well suited for a trophy bass pond more so than a trophy panfish pond. Since you do not want a 40" NP gobbling up all your trophy 10"-14" BG or YP. I just wanted to point that out before someone reads this thread and possibly makes a careless mistake. Anytime one of these NP threads comes up, it makes me giddy wanting to add them to my pond (they are my favorite species), but then I have to remind myself of the fact I stated above, and realize it does not match my goals for my pond.

Somehow, by a person or by a connected stream, I now have a NP in my pond. He's about 30-35" long. I've seen him twice.

I am unsure what I would do if I caught him, meaning take him out or leave him.

I think I'd leave him though.

possibly "chamber a round"

Wow. Great fish (and fishery!)

"possibly "chamber a round""

Let's hope not!!!

Sunil, you should get the pike mounted when you catch it. Nothing would be cooler than your own pond pike mount. Then just put another one in. For pond and small lake management tools for controlling bass populations we have been harvesting the pike and muskie over 32 inches and replacing them with 12-24 inchers depending on availability.

We don't have any muskie reproduction and very very little pike reproduction. Also we use tiger muskies too for more short term fish. Tigers only live 6-8 years on average. I use all three species quite a bit for variuos goals, but really have been having good results with stocking 1-3 adult northerns per acre. Stocking them over 20 inches long is preferred. not having to "raise" them in the pond really jumpstarts those fish and we are averaging 3-4 lbs of growth per year on those advanced size fish.

Last year I had a NP go from 21" to 27.5" in 7 months in my little 1/2 acre pond. I saw it once this summer while feeding as it hammered a poor little BG on its way to a pellet and it looked like a sea serpent lol.

I have been trying to catch it this week but all I keep catching are these darn 11-12" perch :}

Nate I think you should write a series of articles on your projects using Esox as a fisheries management tool and report your findings. Would make a great topic for Pond Boss - and any other fisheries management publication.

It was a year ago today that I was out ice fishing on Bremer Pond when my buddy Jeff got a 5.5 LMB and I got a 38 inch NP. Can we do it again today? No, access to Bremer Pond is closed due to all the drifting snow. We are supposed to get an inch of freezing rain/snow this afternoon then the big NW wind. I am hoping for a miracle by Friday when we are both off again so we can get down there and try to break those records. Winter.