Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction muddy water

I am a new member but have been reading the forums for some time.I have recently reworked my .5 acre pond and have many questions on how to take care of it.After it was it was dug out to an avg. depth of 5 ft we here in central NC had 10 inches of rain in 4 days.The pond catches run-off and within a week it is now full.However, it is obviously muddy from the rain. In the past though it has never really cleared up in the 5 yrs I have had it. I have done the water sample test with jars and after a week the clay is still suspended. Adding alum to jar clears it nicely.So far I have added 200lbs to pond with minimal clearing.When this was done it was on a breezy day.Does the alum change the water make-up so that it will still work days after treatment, or does it work only when it is settling to the bottom? There are no fish in pond now so I want to be aggressive to clear it.Need any advice to help. I mix alum in water barrels and then use pump and firehose to spread over pond. Does this sound ok? Also I have today added three bales of hay to edge of pond.

Welcome Hubcap! I hope you can post some before and after pics for us and let us know how everything goes. After that we sure hope you stick around to join in on all the information shared here. This forum is the best source there is for all things assciated with ponds!

The water has not reached a high enough concentration of Alum to offset the negative charge of the clay. I would add another 200# of alum with 100# of hydrated lime and when the concentration gets high enogh, trust me, you'll know it! If after the additional 200# of alum has set about 10 hours, if the water has not cleared, continue to add 100# Alum and 50# hydrated lime. It is unlikely it will need more than another 200-300 pounds alum.

Thanks, I picked up another150 lbs of alum today. Can I add the lime later since there are no fish in pond? I'm worried that this will be a monthly occurence. Does the alum hold the clay until it gets stirred up again or will it settle again without going through same process? I will get pictures tomm. Beause I do see some clearing. Should the hay help in the long term?Should I let the alum disolve in water over night or just mix it and spray it? Thanks for your help and reply, I have many, many questions.

With no fish, I might not worry at all about the lime, IF your PH is not below 6.0 (where aluminum can become toxic). Use the Hydrated lime if you are unsure...it is really cheap insurance at about $10 for a 50# bag. Be sure your PH is above 6.0 before adding the fish or again, the aluminum may pose a problem. The goal shold be to entirely remove ALL suspended clay. A partial clearing will allow the flocculated clay to easily re-suspend if disturbed.

Hay may or may not help, but once plants estableish you should have less colloidal clay. You may want to get a PH test or just go ahead and add a couple tons of Ag Lime from a local feed store or Co-Op to be safe also.

Should I wait a day to add more alum and when will I know when I have enough? What ratio to mix the alum? What is the purpose of 2 tons of ag lime? When my pond fills and begins running out will this lower the effectivness of the alum?

Don't wait unless you have to. Alum is relatively ineffective till the concentration needed is reached. It is cummulative to a degree.

The Agricultural lime is crushed Dolomite Limestone (Calcium/Magnesium) and acts as a buffer to reduce daily PH swings in the pond to reduce fish stress and provide essential minerals for growth.

Alum works due to it's +3 electrical charge, (lime has a +1) and the colloidal clay is negatively charged. The microscopically sized colloidal clay stays suspended due to the negative charge like same poles on a magnet repel. Adding Alum/Hydrated Lime attracts thousands of clay particles to the alum/lime molecules where they clump, get heavy and sink....they will gradually compact over time after settling out.

If your pond overflows, it will flush out any of the Alum slurry still in the water column, but most will be bound up in the bottom sediments with the suspended clay it took out.

If you have exposed clay that will run into the pond during a rain event, the water will likely cloud again. Plants and Ag lime help to reduce the new suspensions by continually adding a slightly positive charge in the water.

Hello Hub Cap and welcome to Pond Boss!

Hey, Hub Cap!

Rainman, Your explanations of the process in this thread are superlative! Great Job!

Thanks again for your help. I only added 100lbs of alum today. Looks better each time. I hope by waiting until tomm to add another 100lbs that I'm not making a mistake. My ph is way low at 5 so I've ordered my hyd. lime today. I've also called the local farm supply and cked on ag lime. Do I just broadcast this into the pond? I hope to be able to post pictures soon. My only concern is that you can see all of the clay lying on the banks. It seems that this will be easily stirred-up and I will be back to where I started. If I understand it correctly that the chemistry of the water will still be able to allow the clay particals to attract and causing them to resettle. All around the pond is a sandy bank with a good stand of annual rye grass. In the spring the goal is to get grass growing. The pond itself has a real hard clay base that starts about a foot down below the topsoil. The pond is in front of my house so I really need it to look good. Thanks again and I will have many more questions as pond matures.

If you over apply the Alum to the pond while it is still holding the suspended clay, the excess alum is just taken to the bottom in smaller clumps. When the bottom sediments are disturbed, they will quickly settle back out.

If new colloidal clay washes into the pond during a rain exent, the excess alum will continue to draw the new clay to the bottom until there becomes an excessive negative charge in the pond again.

Yes, they can spread the Ag lime by "slinging" it into the pond, providing the truck has safe access. Agricultural lime has a maximum PH of 8.2-8.4. The AG lime is VERY slow acting and long lasting.

HYDRATED Lime is very caustic, short-lived in action and will raise PH very quickly. Hydrated Lime can max out with a PH from 12-14 but only lasts a couple weeks.....Test PH before adding fish.

A couple Caveates.....

1) Use a dust mask and goggles when applying the hydrated lime. It can chemically burn your lungs if you breath in too much and it stings something fierce in your eyes, but tears will neutrilize it quickly.

2) DO NOT mix the Hydrated Lime and Alum in the same mixing container...it turns into paste.


For best results, mix 1 part Alum with 10 parts water and spray the slurry in small raindrop sized spray over the entire pond surface. Begin over the deepest parts of the pond, adding proportionatly more Alum slurry over deeper water than shallow water. If no sprayer, pour it into a prop wash.

The hydrated lime my be broadcast dry directly into the pond after or during the Alum application. It completely dissolves and dispurses rapidly and evenly in the water.

I have added another 50lbs of alum today. This brings the total to date at 400lbs. Pond looks much better than when I started.I have about 14 inches of visiability but instead of being a milky coffee color it is now a more darker natural looking pond. I still feel like it could clear even more but I'm not sure what it needs to look like. If it stayed like it is now then I would be content. Question, should I just go with the ag lime even though it is slower to raise the ph or should I go ahead with 200lbs of hydrated lime since there are no fish yet? Also should I add more alum or just lime since lime will still cause some clay to settle just not as fast? I may be getting ahead of myself but is a bottom aerator essential in maintaining a nice pond? My pond is mainly a run-off pond so in the summer the water does tend to become somewhat stagnet.

Aluminum, the main ingreidient in Alum, dissolves in water with a PH below 6.0 and can be toxic. Yes, I would add the Hydrated lime to precipitate the aluminum out of the water column.

If you still have suspended clay in the water, the water will begin to cloud again rather quickly. Alum is a GCS (generally considered safe) chemical except again, when the water PH is below 6.0.

I would guess that you will need an additional 100-150# more Alum to get all the clay out. As I said in another post, the goal should be to remove ALL the suspended clay. The clarity or visibility in your water should be 18-30 inches, but due to zooplankton and phytoplankton....NEVER from clay.

EDIT:
How are you applying the Alum?

I mix the alum 100lbs at a time into a water tote (plastic container)and added about 250 gal of water then mixed it up. I then pumped the water back out using a 2 inch gas powered pump with a 2 inch firehose and nozzle. I went around the edge of the pond and sprayed the entire surface. One 50lbs bag I did just broadcast it by hand. I'm not opposed to using as much more alum as needed but I thought if I was close then maybe the ag lime might push me over the top.Does the hyd lime help with the suspended clay as well or does it work against the alum. I understand about the ph but i was thinking that the ag lime may bind the clay as well just not as fast. What should the color of a healthy pond be?

The ag lime would be more for other benefits than clearing, although it will help with new clay entering the water once it has been cleared. If all the clay is removed, the water will become crystal clear. That may or may not happen now that it is "clearer" and you are getting green plant life due to more light penetration.

The Hydrated lime is used more to counteract the acid of the Alum, but does help with Colloidal clay removal in only a small way directly. If the aluminum is dissolved in water with a PH below 6.0, the aluminum will not sellte out (with the clay) to the bottom as well.

Each pond is different, but a healthy pond color is a deep green color.

Thanks again. I will continue with the alum and start with the hyd. lime. Can I do the hyd lime all at once and what's the best way to apply it? If I cant get more supplies until Wed. will I loose what I have gained so far? Is $23 a 50lbs bag too much for alum?

You are getting a good price on the alum.

Yes, you can add all the hydrated lime since you don't have fish, otherwise the rapid PH change could shock and kill a bunch.

Waiting till Wednesday won't hurt unless it rains and adds water, or worse, overflows and flushes out what has been applied so far.

I sent you a priveate message.

I forgot to say the 2" trash pump/fire nozzle is an excellent way to apply the slurry. Just be sure you apply more slurry over the deeper areas than the shallows to get an even distribution.

Hubcap, any updates/pics of the pond?

Added 100 more ibs of alum today and (total of 500 lbs) followed by 150lbs of hydrated lime. I think it looks great but I''m no expert. I have pictures but need wife to help post them. Will be coming soon. I have not checked th ph this afternoon.I have 100lbs more or hydrated lime mixed in water ready to put in but had to babysit my 10 month old and did not have time today.I plan on getting that in tomm. and then check the ph.Does this sound OK?I just walked down to pond and saw small clay "clumps" floating on top of water. The water does look much more green and clear in color. Does this mean I may need even more alum or does it mean I've reached the tipping point or is the hydrated lime helping? I thought I had enough alum because the pond looked much better then when i started.

It's hard to say if your water has cleared of all the suspended clay when done in incremental stages. The floating "clay" is actually dead algae that has gasses from decay causing it to float with clay stuck to it.

If the green is a deep. dark shade, you are starting to get a desirable algae bloom from the new light penetration.

Do your jar test again and see if the watr is clear after several hours sitting undisturbed.

Pond looks great. I hope to get pictures up soon.I'm going to ck ph today after adding the hydrated lime.If all holds well I'm going to do the ag lime in acouple of weeks when I'm on vacation from work.With the water clear now do I start having to battle alge and other problems? I hope to find the right combinations for my pond so that hopefully it will be trouble free and look good.I feel I should wait on fish for now until I get the pond under control for a period of time.Thanks for your patience and I'm sure to have many more questions.

Update on pond. We are not sure how to post picture. Any help with this would be great. The pond still looks good after 2 weeks. It has lost some clarity however. Just after the last alum treatment I could count the rocks on the bottom of the pond, now I can still see the bottom (6 ft) but not as clear as before. There is no suspended clay all has settled. Does this sound ok and what is to be expected next in the way of water clarity? Do I need to add any bacteria or anything to keep things going good? My ph is 6.5, is this good enough to add fish now? One other concern. Since the heavy rains that almost filled my pond up in a week we have had no rain. This has been about a month ago. This was also a pond that had been drained and dug out during a hard drought over the summer. My concern is that I have lost about 6 inches of water in about 2 weeks.I see no signs of obvious leaks. Does this sound excesive or normal?

Posting photos is easy once you learn how to do it.

From the archives...Posting Photos on PBoss Forum

Hubcap, only 6 inches of water loss in a renovated or drained pond is excellent!

The easiest way to post pics is to create an account and upload your pics with photobucket. Below ech pic you upload will be links.,.just copy the "IMG" code and then paste that in your thread here.

Finally figuring out how to add pictures...hope this works..

October 8 - muddy waterOct muddy water

October 15 - clearer Oct 15 clearer water