Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Need help with this pond (pic heavy)

[Basic Pond info]
Pond Size: around 4 acres
Water Source: fed by 2 Spring creeks
Pond depth: unsure believed to be 12 feet
Water Clarity: good, 1,1/2-3 feet visibility
PH: Unsure, plan to be getting that info soon
Structure: Good around the edges Lilies, sunken logs, brush, 2 marshy areas, cattails, few patches of submerged grass. the deeper water prob has no structure except old submerge dock pillars.
Under Water Plant Growth: Unsure
Fish Species: Blue Gill, LMB, Grass Carp (at least 5, 15-30 pounds) Crappie and Redbreast.

This is a Friends/Bosses pond, used to be owned by his father. When his Father was alive he lived on the property and kept people wanting to fish away except Friends, co workers and family when he died 4 years ago people started poring in and taking large quantities of fish out. My friend doesn't live on site so people stated taking advantage of this and started fishing (poaching) with out permission. At the time I didn't know cause I only fished it a few times a year, I stated fishing more and started seeing people taking out buckets and huge stringers of fish, I asked if they got permission and they said yes but talking to my friend he said no one asked him. He started cracking down on the people but it was to late the damage was done and fishing there become deplorable.

Since 09 I've been trying to introduce more BG and Larger Bass (genetics mostly) and Started feeding the BG last month, it has improved but I'd like it to get even better. I have permission to do what it takes to get it in shape but very little budget, same goes with my friend he has no money to spend on it. I want to do this with out spending to much money, I do plan to buy a few Red ears. I added some Redbreast, For some reason only a hand full of BG spawn after April in this pond, I hope that they will produce in the late summer so the bass will have more to eat in the fall, another reason is they spawn in different areas then BG and well they are fun to catch.

A few Concerns: Crappie, one good thing about the poachers is they mopped up the Crappie only caught one last year and 2 this year, use to be huge schools of them, they weren't small though, this pond produced some nice/large size Crappie. Lilly pads/cattails: they are taking over the pond, the Lilly pads aren't from around here no clue what they are, they are over 2 feet wide and grow nearly 3 feet out of the water. Cattails I'm sure could just be pulled up but don't know how many I should leave cause the fish love em. JellyFish: I saw quarter size Jellyfish looking critters which I assume to be Freshwater jellyfish, they eat Zooplankton and tiny minnows so that can't be good.

Current Problem: Many small skinny Bass 9-13 inches very few bass bigger then that in 09, it has improved since last year I've seen more 1-3 pound fish (slightly fatter but still need weight) and a guy caught a 7 pounder a few weeks ago (unsure if he released it but I think he did). BG look alright they could be bigger and maybe larger numbers. Lot of baby bass this year swimming around with the BG minnows.

Goals: I'm not really after huge record breakers, I'd be happy with average of 1,1/2 -3 pounds a few 4 pounders and a maybe a 5+. Side note: multiple 6-9 pound bass were caught in here in the past, sadly nearly all were kept. This means it has to be possible to grow some more big ones, which makes this sound like a fun project! Maybe some lager BG, any other species of fish I could add I like variety? No cats... thought about it but prob would never catch them and they would just consume BG. Any info needed, or pics I can get them, Thanks.

latest fish I caught in the pond, I caught a slightly bigger one 2 months ago and 4 other decent size fish this year. Will add more pics of the pond but I going to work in a few and will upload them later.

Those are lotus not lily pads, pretty cool though. They are exotic and pricey, good stuff. You are not handpulling cattails out. That ain't gonna happen. I'd be very concerned unless you have a full time presence there anything you get done as far as quality fish will be undone by poachers. Sounds like the pond really needs very little help, just a patrol and security. I'd keep the crappie you can out, and add some RES and maybe one more forage species. I think the fishery and pond would recover on it's own. I would not do much if anything at all but keep lousy rip off knucklehead poachers out of there. Nice pond though, very nice.

I agree it will fix its self over time but I'd like to speed things along and it gives me a hobby!

I'm sure there are a few poachers left but the main prob was most had permission to fish and got greedy, they started bringing friends and they started bringing their friends without the orignal person that had permission and so on. Most of The People lost the privilege to fish (though alot of them stop fishing cause it got harder and harder to catch fish) afterward they started poaching the pond and the one below it (2 ponds and a large creek on the land.)

How do you get rid of the Cattails same as lilies chemicals? I'm definitely adding Red Ears but I would only be able to buy 100-200. Any suggestions on the other forage species (something I don't have to keep stocking) I thought about Fliers cause they spawn early as Feb, they don't get very big and yet another fun fish to catch. Down side is they may become overpopulated in a pond and they're built like Crappie with large Spines on top and bottom, I doubt fish could eat them as easily as BG.

Something else I wanted to do is add rocks to attract more crawdads and maybe produce more young.

I don't see a weed problem YET and 20% coverage is no problem. If it were me, I would probably kill about 25% per year just to stay ahead of the curve. I like the idea of stocking redears but doubt that you will have much survival due to predation.

Nice place but you badly need to post No Trespassing signs and enforce it.

beautiful pond! Make sure what ever you do, you keep records of sizes and weights, number of fish stocked and removed, and times and dates. this is the best way to monitor your pond and keep it on track. You also might want to look into tagging bass. There are several great posts here on that, and some wonderful articles on pond boss.

I agree with DD2 that you need to get the signs up and figure out an enforcement plan.

I love those lotus. I also have a cattail problem. Pulling does nothing but hurt your back. Chemicals and lots of persistence is about the only way to defeat them.

Glad you found us. Keep the reports coming. we love to share you hobby!

The bass in the picture has a poor relative weight. This could be due to many factors but it's actually possible the pond is bass heavy. The anglers may not kept many bass and overfished the panfish (forage base).

If you can afford it a survey by a professional could tell you a lot about the pond balance.

Hello Bass Shepherd and welcome to Pond Boss.

Wow does this entire scenario sound familiar or what?

I have almost the exact same situation. Absentee owner with poachers.

My advice is get aggressive with the trespassers/poachers. Make sure the property is fenced and posted in accordance with local laws. Spread the word that trespassing will not be tolerated. Install game cameras to catch images of the trespassers/poachers. Call the Sheriff when you have images.

Also I am intentionally not clearing weeds along the shore line to make shore fishing more difficult. I want to discourage the walk in fishermen as much as possible.

Beautiful pond, I wish you the best of luck.

There are a few No trespassing signs up and one guy did get the cops called to him a few months ago, since then I haven't seen anyone bold enough to come on a day when people were around but sadly we can't be there 24/7.

Thanks for the info so far. I would definitely spend money in this pond if it was mind, sadly the price I got on a pro checking it just wont happen. Still I live less then 8 mins away and this is my Favorite pond I fish, it just has all the elements I like in a pond so I don't mind spending a little on it. The guy did say it sounds like thery're to many bass and some may need to be removed, so Cecil Baird1 is prob right. I've seen way to many 9-12 inch bass so I've been thinking about removing some, maybe a few baby bass too. Most of the bass are skinny but its improved since last year, I think if I keep doing what I'm doing now and maybe remove a few bass, next year they will be near ideal weight. I did place some larger bass in (and BG) so it dictates I should remove some smaller bass imo. Now this is all guesswork but I'm trying to use a logical perspective on it.

I'm surprised no one is against the Red Breast stocking, though a lot of people found interest in it at another forum and want to know how it goes. Over all they said they wont likely Spawn do to the change in water type (creek to pond.

@ jeffhasapond I thought about letting it grow, especially now that I got my boat fixed

There is a pond at the beginning of our road and I have permission to fish it, I don't bother cause people just stop off while driving by and fish it out. Small pond but it had some nice fishing. It sucks, I wish there were more people who cared and less Poachers.. then every pond would be a gem, there is a right way of taking fish and the greedy way.

Stocking RES in the pond and having a good survival rate may be tough. The LMB might eat the majority of them unless you stock 6"+ fish.

What size LMB look skinny? I'd target that size fish for removal, and smaller ones. In any case, remove any that look thin. If you have an accurate scale, there is a chart in the archives that tells you what the Relative Weight of different fish should be. Anything less than the weight on the chart (for the length of the fish) is not getting enough to eat.

To put one pound on one LMB, it needs to eat 10# of forage, so feeding the LMB to get bigger will take a lot more $$ than removing some.

I could place them in the marshy area, a lot of minnow hold up in the 1-5 inch water and is covered by the louts and grass. I will look into the 6 inch minnows but most likely I will have to buy less, When should they be stocked?

Edit: I could maybe afford 100 4-6 inch Redear (depending on Delivery cost) but I'd imagine they would have a higher survival rate vs minnows so I will prob do that.

I measured and weighed the LMB last year, 9-13 inches was the Average size and all were skinny, way below the chart weight. I haven't weighed or measured this year, though I plan to before removing any, the weights are a little better from looking at at them but definitely not at ideal weights. I also plan to get the PH info today (if I don't forget) I'm fairly sure it will be fair to ideal.

Found some more pics of bass caught this year in this pond, a Few bass I caught this year were a lot bigger but I didn't have a Camrea those days

Those lotus are very nice... Were they planted in the past or come naturally? I see them in the wild in a few areas, but have never seen them show up naturally in a pond.

I haven't caught many bass.... do to the the 3 digit weather but the ones I've measured the other day are really underweight. Caught 20 plus Blue gill one day and the next time 10, max size was 7 inches 6-7 inch seemed just as common in numbers as the smaller one so not sure what that means. I did find a bunch of broken concrete on site and got the okay to put it in the pond, I plan to do that Mon.

@CJBS2003 The Friends Father planted them I believe 10 years ago, he really cared about the pond so it got a lot of upkeep but his son doesn't really have the money or time for it which sucks cause if you can't tell I love this pond . This also means it will prob get sold at some point so its another reason I don't want to sink a lot of money into it.

Nice pond.

Try to do your on assessment.

See this link - http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492

Thanks for the links some of them confirm my beliefs. I went out today to try and cull some bass but only caught a 13 inch bass unfortunately I ripped a piece of its lip off so I wanted to return it as fast as I could. Didn't have much luck other hen that except these guys, its bad when you can't catch fish and resort to catching frogs lol.

Shepherd,

Not catching pond fish this time of year in your location isn't unusual. The fish are definitely on summer vacation. As for the frogs, well, they serve a number of good purposes too. Yours look pretty healthy -- it just means your bass aren't doing their job.

I'm about 120 miles northwest of you, but I know your area well. Let it cool down a little -- like late September and early October. Fishing will improve greatly.

I can't really speak for everyone, but I think there are enough in the close-in area who could visit some weekend, and help you setup a long term plan.

Keep us posted. We're all happy to assist.

Ken

Thanks Ken. Yes the weather is horrible this year May and Aug is usually when I'm at my best for fishing, last year I had an awesome summer dispite the dry weather, I caught herds of fish from May-Aug and a large number of good size fish. This year I barely caught any thing notable I did hang a nice one but he got off 5 feet away from the bank

prob mean of me, I throw these guys into deeper water in hopes some bass would find them a nice snack. They were smart enough to just stay still and float yet not smart enough to avoid a crank bait, I even had 3 going after it at the same time.....