Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding 5D06 and Yellow Perch

Well it seems I may have bought 100 lbs of food too large for my fish to agressively eat. I went by the size they listed, which says 1/4" pellets, the stuff I was feeding was 3/16" and I thought, "they wouldn't notice bigger pellets." Well, I can tell you two things, I would like Purina to be my bankers, because they give you a very liberal 1/4", and the perch do seem to have noticed my switch.

Size wise these pellets are generally larger than 1/4", most are well over 5/16" when you actually measure them, like I did, with a set of dial calipers. I can randomly grab 5 pellets and they will all be better than .250 dia with most at .315 or more, 5/16" size. This is measured across the round edges as they were extruded, not the flats as they are cut off.

The fish seemed to have slowed up on their rate of consumption, by that I mean it used to sound like a babbling brook when I fed, now it sounds like an impending rain storm with a few advance droplets hitting the water first, and me wondering when the storm will hit.

The only good thing is, this is better food, so if they eat less, they will still be as healthy, but they were slamming the other stuff and the only thing that they could really have noticed is the size of it. These are 9-10"+ size fish, should they be able to handle these pellets with ease? Does anyone else feed 600 to yellow perch? Does anyone near Erie want to trade me some 5D05 for this stuff or buy the unopened bag?? I don't know if I should just keep feeding it and see, the snapping turtles work to clean up the stuff that sinks, I noticed them today working the bottom like salvage divers. I just recently discovered the joys of being a sugar daddy to my perch and I want them to get "Cecil Big" so I would listen to and appreciate all advice. Thanks.

My goal is to raise Baird standard YP too - and I'm loving every minute of trying to get there! Mine range anywhere from 4 - 12". I throw AM 500 and 600, so it's difficult for me to ascertain exactly what size they must attain in order for their gape to handle 600. I know my 12" fish hammer it hard. Have you tried catching a few of your YP and seeing if a 600 pellet fits? My guess is it's probably a tight fit, but Cecil would know better than anyone. I know it sounds like a rudimentary test, but if the pellet fits I'm confident they'll go for as large a pellet available to them and 600 should be fine. If they aren't cleaning up the pellets within 10 minutes back off on the amount you're feeding. Again, that's a crude estimate I suppose but it's what I use as a gauge.

I would hold onto your pellets and see what their gape capability is then make a decision on whether to keep feeding with it or drop down to 500 and make an order. You will definitely be using 600 for your YP this year even if it's a tad large now as I imagine your YP will be 12" within a few months. That's my take...hope it helps.

Another thought, you could try hydrating the feed if you hand feeding. They might eat the soggier stuff quicker - softer might go down easier.

Depending on how fast you go thru feed, I'd be tempted to keep it and buy a bag of 5D05. Try the 5D06 after the smaller stuff is gone and they might suprise you.

Joe,

Maybe Dr. Perca (Bill Cody) can come on and back me up, but if the yellow perch truly are 9 to 10 inches the 5D06 shouldn't be a problem.

Did you use Aquamax before or did you just change over to Aquamax? If you changed over, the fish may have to get used to it, as sometimes when you change brands of feed they treat it at first like, "Hey what's this stuff?"

Switching brands does make a difference in feeding activity of pellet eating YP as Cecil suggests. JoeG doesn't say what he was feeding previously. Gape of a 9" YP is right at 1" (25-27mm) so the pellets are definately small enough for 9" perch to readily eat. Perch eating a slightly larger pellet will definately not eat them as fast, nor as many as smaller AM-5D05. Hydrating the higher protein pellets definately does cause a increase in aggressive feeding activity of the YP. Hydrated 5D06 pellets can easily be eaten by 5"-6" YP. My YP do it all the time. ONe rule of thumb for proper size of pellet to feed to a fish is to use a pellet the size of the fish's eye diameter.

One note about AM pellets especially the 5D06 which I buy regularly. The size and color of the pellets will vary sometimes significatntly between the various production batches. The batches also absorb water differently. I've learned from Dr. Mark Griffin that several factors at the factory contribute to this variability. A couple of the most common variables are raw products and time between cleaning of the extruders. The current batch of 5D06 (Mar30101) that I have is opposite size of what JoeG is seeing. My curent 5D06 are on the small side of 1/4"=6x7mm, whereas my previous batch of 5D06 was larger and similar size that JoeG mentions above 0.315.

Previous feed was a Tractor Supply product manufactured by Purina Mills called Farm Pond Diet, a 36% protien pellet that is 3/16 size. It is what I fed my fatheads last year. I bought a bag this year and while feeding the minnows my perch started to crowd in and have now taken over feeding time, last year I almost never saw them feed, this year they are like machines. To be fair I fed too late in the morning or too early in the eveneing last year, I feed dusk and dawn this year and it makes a big difference. The size of my fish has been sampled by rod, reel, confirmed by filet knife. I have some pictures of a few I caught for adinner around Easter. These were feed trained fish a year old when I put them in in April 2009, 4-6 inches then. They are in the 9-10 class at present with a few shooters coming in larger.

My main concern is if they could fit those pellets in whether it makes them less apt to feed as agressively because of the gulp factor?? I mean even I chew my food, sometimes. I just want to make sure they stay on feed as best I can, I have a great fathead population and a forage pond full of them to keep transferring in, all the pieces to the puzzle are in place. I guess I will keep at it for a few more days and see how things are then. Thanks to all for your input so far.

If you really want to make sure they stay on feed as best you can, optimize feeding aggressiveness, and improve the number of young YP that become pellet eaters then hydrate the feed. For the features and details of hydrating pellets, see my article in the past issue of PBoss magazine (May-Jun 2008 -Special Edition Feeding Fish), "The Softer Side of Feeding Fish" p48-50. When using softened pellets, even a 4" YP can eat a 1/4" pellet. Softened pellets are very helpful for feed training most all species of fish.

Quote Bill "One rule of thumb for proper size of pellet to feed to a fish is to use a pellet the size of the fish's eye diameter."

That's something to remember!! Thanks Bill!

More about YP not eating a new type of pellet well. Since you changed the feeding times, I suspect the new feeding time has a lot more to do to the mediocre feeding activity rather than the new slightly larger pellet. YP tend to be pretty inflexable in their pellet feeding habits. It often takes time for them to adapt to a new "plan" depending on degree of deviance. The 5D06 are a much better flavored pellet for them. Go back to the regular feeding times for a couple days and then report back here. Feeding activity should then be as good if not better than what you were seeing previously.

I never changed feeding times this year, least year I never fed at the proper time to benefit my perch and it was obvious. I have still noticed decreased feeding activity, if nothing changed by Monday I will be making a purchase of another bag of the cheap feed, just to keep them eating. Also I don't have any small feed trained perch in my pond, these fish are all the same year class and from what I read here should handle the pellet size with no troubles.

Update: feeding intensity is back to normal and I feel that it has improved even as others had predicted it might. The Aquamax product seems to be more sought after than the generic stuff and my fish are once again getting plenty to eat. Thanks for the advice from one and all.

Joe G -

Last year I would never see my YP rise to the surface to feed. At that time, I too was using the TSC brand. With the switch this year to the AM 5D06, and following Bill's advice on presoaking, my 6-7" YP attack the pellets as soon as they hit the surface. Pellet size is not a problem.


Russ

That TSC brand stuff is made by Purina, both bags say PMI Nutrition, same MO address and PO box number that is on the Aquamax bags is on the TSC stuff, and the product code 5ZD4 I believe it is. I'm still sold that the time of day has much to do with feeding YP, if the sun is on the water they feed drastically less than if it is overcast, or dusk/dawn situation. My main mistake in the past was not recognizing this an capitalizing on peak feeding rythms of the fish. I have two snapping turtles that eat along side my perh too, gulping down pellets.

Sometimes I think we pondmeisters worry too much or overanalyze. At least that's the case with me. My dad says both my twin and I are bad at that.

Joe -

I noticed that too but never did find out if they are one and the same.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=169163#Post169163

- Russ

Russ the PO box is the same and the name PMI, or Purina Mills International is on both bags, on the nutrition tags. They are the same company. The Procuct code is 5ZD1 on the TSC stuff, it is not as dark colored as the A-max but it served me well, it was a little more expensive but easy to get. I found a source for A-max and won't look back now.

I know what you mean Cecil. It helped me as a tool and die maker but slows me down when it comes to pushing dirt around. I tend to obsess over some details and not about others at times, I'm just tickled my fish are eating, and I see the benefits all too clearly now.

Good deal Joe! When our fish are happy we are happy! The best sign of healthy fish are fish that are feeding well. When they stop feeding and there is no other reason, such as water temps or a sudden change in water temps, that's when we should worry!