Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Placement of drain pipe in pond?

Hello All,

I need to fix the drain pipe in my pond as the water has eroded through the bank and is no longer passing through the pipe. I am worried about the bank collapsing. My question is does the placement of the drain pipe matter in relation to the water source that fills the pond? The current drain location is on the opposite side of the pond in relation to the water source, but it drains into my woods and it is very swampy. I would like to drain down the pond and move the location of the drain so it goes down into an existing creek. If I were to do it this way my drain would have to be at about 10 o'clock in relation to the water source. The current drain is @ 6 o'clock in relation to the water source. Is this placement (10 o'clockish) advisable or will it create flow problems? Thanks in advance for any input!

Hello A.Young and welcome to Pond Boss. Hang on for some expert feedback?

Experts, feedback please...

i dont think it matters. the nrcs guys here have never paid any attention to inflow. but they always line the pipe up to dump in existing ditch behind dam. but i think the nrcs may be slightly different here not sure. they only recommend and will only pay share on sch. 40 smooth steel pipe. they say there records over the past 30 to 40 years proves it last longer than anything. absolutely no pvc or corrugated. they say no to pvc due to sun and fires and no to corrugated because unless its smooth inside it reduces water flow and that water sets on the bottom and rots them out. but i see a lot of folks on here using both which surprised me but it may just be different in different areas. at first i didnt like the steel pipe but i'm kinda changin my mind on it. once in place you can get pretty ruf with it. the nrcs doesnt require us to use a packer but to add 10% for shrinkage using dozer. so once pipe is in we put a couple inches of cover on it and drive over it to get some compaction. you have to be way more careful with plastic.anyway havent had any problems yet and going back to fish some of these ponds that are 10 to 15 yrs old the metal pipe looks almost as good as new. by no means am i sayin using a packer isnt better i think they are trying to keep it cheap and it seems to be working. will post a pic of a typical drain pipe with no riser

Thanks Tim,

Just to be clear, it does not matter where the drain pipe is in relation to the incoming water source?

i have had retention ponds where that was an issue but thats a whole different matter. i'm sure what you want to do is ok. but must warn you i aint been an expert since i was 18 about 25 years ago.

Nice points, especially about the smooth steel versus corrugated drain or plastic.

Another question that occurs to me:
Is it better to have the outflow pipe define the water level, or the inflow pipe?

I've been contemplating a lake of my own, and I assumed that a pipe angled up the face of the dam from the deepest area of the tank would help draw sediment out to slow down heavy buildup, whereas a vertical stand-pipe would not.

Pointers?

Since I live in oil country I might actually be able to find usable drill stem for the task, too. If anything's tough enough to deal with corrosion that stuff is!

I'M SURE IT WOULD HELP SOME. HERE WE INSTALL BOTTOM DRAIN PIPES SIMPLY BY LAYING THE STEEL PIPE FLAT IN THE BOTTOM OF THE DAM 6' IN FRONT OF THE FRONT TOE EXTENDING THROUGH THE BACKTOE AND WELDING ANTI SEEP COLLARS EVERY 20' THEN PLACING VALVE IN A VALVE BOX ABOUT 3' DEEP IN THE BACK TOE OF THE DAM. WE USE STEEL WITH GREAT SUCCESS. IF WE HAVE ENOUGH FALL BEHIND THE CORE WE WILL EVEN DIG THEM DOWN INTO THE CORE . WE USE THIS SETUP AND THE RISER/TUBE BOTH ON BIGGER PONDS. I DONT SEE WHY U COULDNT BUILD A SIPHON SYSTEM OUT OF THE DRILL STEM IF ITS OF LARGE ENOUGH DIAMETER. BUT IF YOU ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN YOUR POND AND DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ROCKS OR BULLS OR FIRES TEARING PLASTIC PIPE UP IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER. I'M SURE SOME PEOPLE THINK MY NRCS GUY IS NUTS RECOMMENDING STEEL BUT KEEP IN MIND IT MAY BE YEARS BEFORE A HUMAN SEES SOME OF THESE PONDS WE BUILD HERE. I POSTED A PIC UNDER QUESTIONS AND OBSERVATIONS OF A POND THE OWNER HASNT SEEN IN AT LEAST 15 YRS. SO WHEN U PUT THE STEEL IN YOU CAN WALK AWAY AND DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT IN BRUTAL CONDITIONS. AND I'M NOT QUITE FOLLOWING YOUR FIRST QUESTION ABOUT INFLOW VS OUTFLOW ON A SIPHON SYSTEM YOUR VENT DETERMINES THE LEVEL ALONG WITH PROPER PIPE PLACEMENT. ON A RISER THE TOP OF THE RISER DETERMINES IT. WILL POST A PICTURE OF A STEELE TUBE AND RISER WE INSTALLED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I SAY WE MY SON DID AND I'M SURE GLAD HE CAN NOW THEY ARE A LOT OF WORK AND I'D RATHER BE PUSHIN DIRT AND WATCHIN.

THE PICTURE IS OF 16'' SMOOTH STEELE WITH A 36" RISER

Can I siphon out my little pond into the big pond over the levee with a water hose?

Well, yes you can. However, depending on how long the incoming end is, that might take quite a bit of suction to get it going. There might be something mechanical that you can use to get it started.

Hey folks,

I just bought an old place in maryland with a 60 yr old 1/3 acre pond that is spring fed and has a 20 foot wide earth dam with a 8" cast iron level control drain pipe that runs down through the dam and discharges to a stream.

I am concerned about the condition of the drain pipe and what I may need to do to repair/replace it. The top of the drain pipe is very rusted and corroded through in places. But most troubling is the backside of the dam above the discharge pipe. This area has been eroding and although I still have a good portion of the dam in place the erosion is in a vertical line directly about the drain pipe possibly indicating it has collapsed.

What I am looking for is some advice on what I need to do to repair/replace the drain pipe. Because the pond is very healthy (large mouth bass, bluegill, crawdads, frogs, etc), whatever I do, I would like it to disturb the pond as little as possible.

Hi J.Manning and welcome to Pond Boss. For future reference it is usually better to start your own thread to get the responses that you need. That being said we'll see if we can get you some responses from our experts.

'Sperts?

IMHO the answer is "it depends." Is the little pond higher in elevation than the big pond?

For a siphon to work the target pond must be lower than the source pond. If the two ponds are close in elevation then at some point the water levels in both ponds could equalize and, accordingly, the siphon would stop. So IMHO it it going to depend on the drop in elevation between the two ponds (if any).

If there isn't much of a difference in elevation then perhaps you could rent a "trash" pump and pump the water from one pond to another.

J:

Welcome to PB! Is there enough room on the property to dig a small holding pond to transfer the fish to while repairs are being done on the pond? Or, possibly could you purchase a couple of those free standing 3' deep kids pools? Possibly look on Craigslist or some place like that. I have a feeling that the only way to repair the pipe would be to dig it up and lay down new pipe, which would require draining most of the pond.

You can get the fish out by seining. If you went that route, it would give you a very detailed look into your fish population. I'd make the pools species specific, LMB in one, Sunfish in another, etc. The pond is small enough, so there really wouldn't be 1,000's of pounds of fish.

Rex had a good idea in another thread - get a plumbing guy to come out with their camera and look at the inside of the pipe to get a good idea of what's going on.