Pond Boss Forums AERATION Should I aerate? Utility Pump, Floating Fountain, Aeration question

Hello everyone first post, I am glad I found this forum for us pond owners so we exchange information.

I live in south Louisiana and have had my smaller than 1/4 acre pond now for about 20 years. Its stocked with bass and bream and over the years I have filled it when necessary with a standard water well. Within that time I have been through about 5 1HP Sprinkler pumps to create a fountain in the middle of the pond and help aerate. Let me explain, I submerged a 3/4 inch pvc pipeline to the middle of the pond that then comes out of the water about 12 inches. This line connects to the 1HP sprinkler pump which is mounted on my deck. I have a 1 1/2 pvc line ran from the inlet on the pump to the edge of the deck which then hangs down into the water with a foot valve on the end. When turning on the pump it shoots about a 20 - 25 foot stream of water into the air, kinda like a poor mans fountain.

My question is my Sprinkler pump, which I have always gotten at Lowes, is out again and before I spend another $200.00 for another one, I was looking at different options, like the floating pumps but I now see that they run kinda expensive. Or even looking at these aerator systems that are talked about here, but I was also trying to have the water thrown into the air like it has been doing. These cheapo Sprinkler/Utility pumps at Lowes work fine for about 2 years then the motor goes out from getting hot, I think due to the windings being corroded or from spider webs etc, because the motor is not fully encased to allow air flow. I have tried covering them over the years, even with a plastic bag wrapped tight, when I am not running it, but it still happens.

I would appreciate any feedback someone could offer that may have some suggestions.

I included a picture so ya'll could see the setup in the distance.

Hi copotay, and welcome to the Pond Boss forum! It's always good to see another Louisianian!

Unfortunately I don't know anything about fountains, so I won't be much help with your pump question.

Just curious, is your pond so deep or shaded that you must use aeration, or is it strictly for aesthetics?
I guess it would be unusual to need aeration in our area unless the pond is unusually deep.


Your pond is beautiful, by the way!

Have you tried making an enclosure to keep rain and moisture off of the pump, but still letting good air flow to it? How many hours per day do you run the pump, and how many days per year?

Hello Copotay,

Beautiful setting. I was just down your way about two weeks ago. Love to see it in person during my next trip through.

As Bobad asked, are you looking for strictly aesthetics? With the money you have spent already, you could have a display aerator that will achieve both aesthetics and some aeration. There are several of us on the resource guide that can help you with choices and what is best for your pond.

Being that goals and ponds vary from pond to pond, it is best to speak to one of us directly to offer a solution that best fits your pond.

Tks for the comments ya'll about the scenery and the welcoming, and hello fellow Louisianian, it took awhile to get those cypresses that big. The whole pond at its deepest point is about 6 or 7 feet towards the middle, it stays mostly shady now with the size of the trees. I enjoyed the fountain affect with the way I had it rigged, but I was also doing it to circulate the water when we get a few drought weeks at a time. Ya'll think with the way it is I wouldn't need to aerate?

I am just tired of paying $200.00 to change out the pump every two years, its getting reduntant and costly, not to mention I have so many couplings on the pipe now after redoing it so many times, I will eventually have to run new pipe. One other problem I have is as you can see in the picture where the footvalve is attached to the 1 1/2 pipe that hangs in the water is off the edge of my deck. The deck has about had it and is about to colapse after so many years, I rarely walk on it because of this. So that means that I will have to figure something out if I keep doing it like this for the footvalve to hang far enough out into the water once the deck has rotted away, or redo the deck but then I would have to drain the pond to plant some new posts. I guess I could rig something up from the bank, once I can't climb on the deck anymore, to extend the footvalve out into the water far enough where its also deep enough, I will have to think about that one.

Esshup, I had a half barrel, open on both ends, covering it on the first two then I decided to start wrapping it completely up, without it running of course, with a plastic trashbag to keep the moisture and spiders/bugs out, then take it off to run it. During the summer I usually run it about every two weeks, sometimes once a week, for a day and night. Then after it would cool I would cover it. During the winter I would hardly run it but I would keep it covered and then wrapped because I would have to drain the water out of the pump to avoid our occasional freezes. Before I started wrapping it, and even after, I would find spider webs and bug parts, like what the spiders were eating I guess, inside the motor housing, so I began using compressed air to blow it out then spray some contact cleaner near the windings, all this but it still eventually would get hot, smoke a little, then that was it, burnt. All the impellor housings had never failed. If I had to guess I would say I was not running it enough, especially over a winter, to keep everything working, but when I got this last one, I made a point to run it exactly every two weeks for a day, still didn't work, now I am just frustrated with it.

I included a pic of the pump arrangement up close, you can see how the deck is getting bad

Welcome copotay. I think you're always better off aerating, especially if the fish poundage is high, and/or if you have a very fertile setting. Have you thought about using the well water as a source for the pump? You could then use the pump less by aerating the well water directly. A fountain type system is probably best for you, with limited depth. Bottom aerators work better the deeper they are placed.
Anxious to hear more questions from you and answers from the folks in the aeration business.
I envy your beautiful bald cypress trees.

Have you looked into a submerged pump like a submersible well pump? It'll stay cool and all you need is a screen on the end of it. If you want to keep the same set-up, I'll look for a pump similar to what Dad uses to water the lawn at the lake house.

Dad has used a 220v 2 hp cast iron pump to water the lawn at their lake house since the late 1970's. The pump is the same one that he started with, he waters for about 3-4 hours per weekend, but if it's dry he'll run it all night. I think he's replaced the capacitor on it once. It runs 12 rainbird inpulse sprinklers at the same time. 2" inlet, 2" outlet. The pump is in a metal box that I built back then, the box is roughly 30" square and has a couple of access doors on it. When the pump is running he leaves the doors open.

Looking again at your set-up I see the pipe that is running to the fountain is considerably smaller than the outlet. That will increase the drag on the pump/motor. You could increase the size of the pipe going to the fountain, just reducing it enough at the outlet to get the desired spray, reducing the drag on the pump. At first I thought you were using the plastic shallow well pumps that are available, but it looks like everything is cast iron. I had 2 of those plastic pumps go out on me within a 2 year time span. Is the inlet screened with a large enough (area wise) screen to keep the pump from straining to get water from the pond? Dad bumped the inlet pipe from 2" to 3" once it is in the lake, and the screen is a 4" dia x 36" or so long piece of PVC that has a whole lotta 1/2" holes drilled in it. That piece is covered with 1/4" hardware cloth that he can take off and clean if it starts to get clogged.

Burgermeister: The regular water well I use to put water is 600 feet from the pond, it is so far because I did not have to dig a new well and was already there for 40 years, we had used it to supply water to a home until we got city water. I have a 1" black polybuthelane pipe running from the water well to the pond for sheer volume to fill. I tried one time using it for the fountain/aeration effect but due to the distance, and power of the well, I just spurts out once I reduced it down at the outlet, but aerating it sounds interesting. Most of the time the pond stays full so I rarely run the water well to fill it up to overflow. I see your in Texas, u know how sometimes our afternoon Louisiana thunderstorms dump 2 or 3 inches an hour, then sometimes it can go two weeks with no rain. Tks for the comment on the Cypresses, believe me they drink alot of water too, its hard grass trimming around all those knees. Tks

esshup: Are u talking about something similar to a sump pump to submerge, like a sewage system pump?I see what u are saying about the drag/strain to the motor because of the reduction to 3/4" pipe right out of the pump housing. The inlet is the big 1 1/2 pipe u see hanging off the deck, below the water its a standard foot valve like on a water well, that was how the manual said to install it, its supposed to be good for 25 foot lift, I have it about 2 feet into the water. The actual pumping has always seemed to work fine. I know on at least two occasions, with this last pump, I stood right on the side of it, cranked it up, and saw it begin to smoke and smell hot, so I cut it off, blew it out with compressed air, sprayed some contact cleaner inside where I could, and it ran fine for about three weeks, then it did it again, so I repeated the process, worked again, but then it finally burnt. BTW, when I took off the plastic trashbag to start the pump I found a medium sized water moccasin wrapped up in the trash bag, seems every kinda of animal and bug just loves to hang around my pump, he didnt like me bothering him that much so we had a problem and I nearly got bit. The pump your dad has is like what I have but bigger? Is it commercial grade?

Just for example I put a link to the pump that now replaces the one like I have from Lowes from when I was looking at them before posting here. The ones I have bought over the years were some Wayne pumps at Lowes, now they only have this Utilitech, never heard of them and cannot find a website business for them, but u see in the picture it looks like the motor is now closed off from the elements from what I can tell:

Lowes pump

I really appreciate everyone helping out with suggestions and other avenues for me to follow, because I don't have a large amount of funds to get something like those floating aeration/fountain pumps which would probably be the ticket.

Esshup: here is the footvalve at the end of the pipe

Foot Valve

I found the pdf file from the Wayne pump site for the pump I have so u can see how they have it setup

Wayne Pump Manual

I was thinking of something like this one:
Submersible well pump

I think you are trying to push too much water thru the 3/4" pipe, causing too much drag on the pump. Look here: Pressure/flow calculator and compare the 3/4" (.75") pipe to 1 1/2" (1.5") pipe. After looking at the numbers, I believe there is too much strain on the pump using the 3/4" pipe. I just ran the #'s for 50' of 3/4" pipe, and bumping it up to 1 1/2" pipe reduces the pressure drop from 927 to 31.

I'd run 1 1/2" pipe out to the fountain end, ending it with a threaded fitting. I would use a bushing reducing fitting to reduce the outlet to get the spray to the height that you desire. That might mean only reducing the opening a little bit. I'd start with a 1 1/4" reducing fitting and drop in size by 1/4" increments until you get the height that you had before. You probably will be pushing out a LOT more water than previously. Too much pressure on a pump will over work it, causing it to heat up and fail prematurely.

In reading the manual that you linked to, a couple of things jumped out at me:

Never use pipe smaller than 2” in
diameter for suction piping. The suction
pipe must be kept free of air leaks. For
horizontal runs, lay pipe from the water
source so the upward slope is at least 1/2”
per foot. This eliminates trapped air. The
threaded inlet of the pump is 2” NPT.

By using the 1 1/4" foot valve and associated piping, you are reducing the diameter of the suction pipe, causing the pump to work harder.

I would use the set-up of the in-line check valve with the well screen. Insetad of a drive point, you could just cap the end. That set-up is shown on tthe top right of page 2. Do you have the correct wire size for the length of run and motor size? Look at the chart on page 4 to verify.

Please forgive me esshup, its a Waterace pump I have, posted the wrong manual, which shows all 1 1/2", here is the correct manual, I found the paper manual in my files then went to look at the pump to make sure. Its definitly a 1 1/2 inch threaded inlet and outlet on the pump.

Waterace manual

I definitly understand what you are saying on the discharge and it being too small and how running 1 1/2 out to the middle of the pond then reducing it from the exact point where the water leaves the pipe would reduce the load on the motor. See all at the same time if I go this route again, I am planning to put the pump on the levee away from the deck, building a little foundation on the levee for it to sit on because the deck has about had it and I am just waiting for it to collapse. Then I would have to run the suction pipe out into the water at a downward angle so its far enough out away from the bank. Probably have to put some type of support for the angled pipe in the water so it does not hit bottom.

I rechecked my voltage with the chart which I had done when I ran it the first time to make sure it would handle it, I am running 12/2 with ground burial wire with the pump set to 115 volts. it shows I could go 130 feet but my run is only about 75 feet for the 1 HP motor. So I think this is ok. The foot valve is a 1 1/2 inch as it calls for, not a 1 1/4 , that I bought when I made it the first time years ago I found the old receipt, the piping on the suction is all 1 1/2 like it also calls for in this manual, so the only thing I can see is what u are suggesting the mess up is the 3/4 inch outlet pipe. Its weird how the Wayne manual is different than the waterace when it comes to the suction pipe size.

copotay, you could put the inlet right on the bottom of the pond, and then put a 45° or 90° elbow on the end, then put the screen on that elbow. Point the elbow up and you won't have to worry about sucking up stuff from the bottom.

Aside from the outlet pipe being too small, the only thing that I can think of is that the screen on the foot valve might get clogged easily due to it's small surface area. I'd increase that inlet screen size if possible, using a screen that has smaller holes in it than the holes for the fountain.

If you make a pad like you are talking about, stick 4 anchor bolts in the pad, making them long enough so you can bolt down a 2 x ? thick piece of treated wood. You can use the treated wood to attach the pump to, preventing it from sliding around. Using the wood leaves you some flexibility for mounting a pump if you have to change it out and the bolt pattern isn't the same.

I'd build a 2' x 3' x 3' (or so) high pump house around the pump, with a roof that will shed water. Put some 1/8" mesh screening under the eaves of the pump house, and in a couple of places near the bottom. That will keep the water and critters off of the pump, and let ventilation thru when it's running.

Thats good, at least I can just send the pipe out into the water about 10 feet from the bank resting on the bottom just making sure the elbow is pointed upwards. What type of screen do you attach to the end of the suction pipe after elbowing it up away from the pond bottom instead of using that footvalve? I was just thinking of something that would last a long time and not rust or rot away if it was made out of metal.

Thats kinda what I was thinking too about the pad then with the wood bolted to it so that I can just screw down the pump to the treated wood like I have been doing on the deck. I definitely was looking at building a pump shed now after all this tks for the heads up on the screen mesh to keep the spiders and everything out.

hey btw, I was reading roaming the net reading about the pumps and particularly mine, the Waterace brand, one irrigation specialist said Waterace uses the Myers pump but the "cheapest motor known to man", go figure, there were also some bad reviews on the FLotec pumps at Home Depot, same thing, the pump is good the motors end up freezing up and rusting inside. everything I read people are getting about 2 years out of these cheapo motors, looks like alot who complained live in the South where there is alot of humidity. Some of these people found out that the commerical installers of sprinkler systems are using stuff like Gould pumps (commericial grade) that can go for like 15 years without a problem, but of course I checked and found that the same HP pump from Gould is close to $600.00. Then again if I keep adding up $200.00 I am already at $1000.00 after a few years with these.

Now I dont know whether to go and get a cheapo pump again, replumb and protect it as u are suggesting and see if it works or buy a commerical grade pump and replumb and protect.

Whew decisions, but I really appreciate your input and detailed information on how to help me, I just had become so frustrated with these pumps I was ready to strangle the fish.

I had a flowjet shallow well pump for the house, and one day I didn't have water pressure in the house. The pump/bladder tanks are in an old below grade milkhouse that is covered by a shed. I looked down and there was a good 3' of water in there. I flipped off the breaker and braved the 55° water to see what happened. The Flowjet pump has a plastic pump housing, and the pipe threads stripped out. It would have kept pumping until it shorted everything out. I bought a F&W pump and it worked fine until the screen started to plug, then I had a new well sunk, and went with a submersible pump.

Personally, I try and buy the best quality that I can afford, figuring that I might pay more in the first place, but I rarely ever have to spend that money again on a replacement.

Before you buy a pump, try and find out how many hours of operation they are rated at. You might have to do some digging, but the companies surely cycle tested them and durability tested them, even if it was just to make sure that their warranty was long enough for 75% to 80% of the users out there.

The sprinklers that Dad uses has an opening of 3/16", so he just took a piece of PVC pipe, and drilled a bunch of 1/2" holes in it. He then took 1/8" mesh galvanized hardware cloth and covered the PVC that he drilled with it. It only sticks up about 18"-24", and it's accessible from the pier to remove and clean. Depending on how deep the water is where you plan on locating the screen, you could make the pick-up pretty long. If your fountain nozzle isn't too small, I'd use 1/4" or 3/8" mesh, stainless or plastic if it wasn't easily accessible to change in case of corrosion. There should be other places that carry it, but you can order it from here

I think he replaces the mesh every 3-4 years.

Tks for the nfo, right now the way I have it shooting water out it is just a 1/2 open pvc fitting, i do not have a sprinkler head on it, I was just letting it shoot water about 20 feet in the air out of the 1/2" opening, it was straight stream that did break apart at the top with a little wind and even without wind. So I may be able to get away with just some of the larger mesh over the holes, I guess he also had the holes that big, and not smaller, to make sure it was restricted when it was drawing water as not to put a bind on the pump.

Tks now I just need to figure out about which pump, I emailed Waterace to see what they would say. I also found some instructions on how to undo the motor from the pump, but if I stay with the low end I will have to see if it cost more for the motor than the whole assembly. Thats another thing, I shut it off before it completely stopped while it was smoking and smelling. I wish I knew a little bit more about motors, it may just be the capacitor that is overheating because that part sure did get hot to the touch. If I am correct the capacitor is in the little housing attached to the outer part of the motor body.

Boy they sure have alot of mesh choices at that site

Does this look ok its aluminum it also says the size is 8 x 8 of the spacing, according to the charts from the McMaster site it looks awful small spacing and will filter rice grains according to the Mcmaster site, I dont want to bind the pump again

Lowes Mesh

Look at these things, they are proud of them too

Pump Filters

Man, I dont know. It just seems like a lot of money in electricity and machinery for what, picturing it in my mind is marginal esthetic value and even less aeration value compared to a bottom diffuser. Even at just 6 or 7 ft., with your size pond, a bottom diffuser would circulate the water many more times in a given time frame, and at a smidgen(yeah, scholars, that's a word) of the cost.

BM, I know what u are saying, but the wife likes to see the water fountain, lol, and she has half the money, I almost had her talked into the floating fountains but the price was too high. And she hates fishing and doesn't like eating fish, its a no win scenario. Btw, I was reading somewhere in my searching about the bottom aerators that in an older pond, that was never aerated from the beginning, it could scour up some of the old bottom sediment and stuff causing a water problem, is that true?

Understand; it is a no win, but to go with what esshup suggests to try and get a system that will hold up longer. If not much, or any fish is consumed, just concerned about the water quality. With not much sun getting to the pond, the plankton bloom cant produce much O2. If you havent had any problems, then things must be doing OK.

I only had a partial fish kill one time in the life of the pond which is right at 28 years old. It was after a hurricane passed through and lowered the pressure along with all of the debris that flew into the pond. Our power was out for 6 days, I think it was Hurricane LILI, and I could not run my pump to help a little bit. But knock on wood since then they are all swimming around looking at me when I walk on the bank.

Well I went to buy the pump, fittings, and pipe at Lowes, turns out I ended up finding out who makes the pump rebranded under the Lowes name its:

Flint and Wall

It comes with a 2" footvalve!!!

Well my wire ran from the power pole, 12/2 with ground, near 80 feet, will not cut it running the pump on 110, this new pump says it can only go 50 feet running on 12/2 at 110. I will have to go 220 which says I can go up to 200 feet with 12/2, so I will use the existing 12/2 run and convert it to 220, ending up at a new load center I bought next to the new pump on a new post. I had to buy a dual pole breaker for the GE load center at the power pole and another one for the load center next to the pump so I can turn the pump on and off. I am having to do it this way because their is a vapor bulb dusk to dawn light that is currently there next to the pump that I dont want to shut off when the pump is not running, so I will use a single pole breaker in the load center to control the vapor light, along with the dual pole to control the pump, next to the pump, to run the light separate from the pump. Whew!!!!!!

That took alot to explain, but I now have some work ahead of me, I will be tearing down the entire deck and redoing everything within the next two weeks hopefully. I will post some pics when I get finished.

F&W pumps are pretty good, providing they didn't cheapen them up for the big box store market.

It sounds like you'll be busy the next week or so! Have fun, stay safe and post pics when you're tired of working.

Tks esshup, before I even start with the pump I will be knocking down the old decks and moving them out of the way, so it will probably be a 2 weekend job between regular work. I will post some finished pics.

Well you might need to save up a little, but Aqua Control makes the best fountains in the industry. They have a fountain called the Evolution Series. That uses a 1/2 HP pump that floats on the surface, and produces a trumpet shaped pattern called the Torndao without a nozzle. This gives about 130GPM. Lights can be added, also different spray patterns too.
www.aquacontrol.com

There are several PB advertisers who make good fountains and aeration systems.

Got the Evolution from Aqua Control / Cary Martin thru Greg Grimes for the wife for mother's day and she loves it. I am enjoying/using it now daily in case my bloom crashes too quick. I recommend it.