Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Food for redear

Client wants to maximize weight gain on redear. Wondering if freswater mussels is an option any other ideas?
thanks

Greg :

A great question. I am interested in finding a RE supp. growth method also. I had not thought about freshwater mussels. A quick look at some info from The West Vir. DNR states they all require moving water with high o2 content . I have seen many in streams and rivers but none in ponds . I will look into this more and report back.Thanks ewest.

Greg.

I'm not an expert and hopefully Bill Cody will come along, but it seems to me the freshwater mussels could be too hard or get to large for optimum forage. I was told by Bill Cody when he honored me with a vist, that I had two kinds of snails in my ponds (I know they're not mussels) and one was too hard for the fish to actively feed on and the other was not. However, I don't have any redears and I'm well aware that redears have crusher teeth in the back of their throast unlike lot of other species. It will be interesting to see what Bill has to say.

Greg :

Further info {same source} says some bi-valves exist in stiller waters of natural lakes and ponds but are almost never found in impoundments due to recirculation of waste toxic to mussels,sedimentation and high concentrations of co2 and carbonic acid which dissolves their shells.ewest

Greg, it is my understanding that redears will eat anything but are able to eat bi-valves and snails.

Our Redears seem to be a lot more competitive that what I read on this board. The smaller ones are usually caught on worms, same as bgill, but fished deeper. The ones that are "hand size" or larger, always prefer golden shiners. Shiners are the only way to catch the big ones. Which makes me wonder, why are most stocking rates for RE so high when they seem to compete with Bass for forage ? And why is RE competition with Bass for similar forage never mentioned ?

Didnt I read a post that Bruce fattened up his BG in winter on nightcrawlers? I have caught a few 'chinquipin' and never used a snail, but red worms.

Eastland:

What size Shiners do you catch RES on? (And what size RES is "larger" to you?)

I catch my largest Redears (up to 9" so far) more readily than Bluegills the same size, on worms and at or near the bottom in 3-4 feet of water. The RES mouths I have seen could handle an adult Fathead, but nothing larger.

Our larger RE go about 1 1/2 lbs. They definately have larger mouths than a same sized BG. The minnows we catch them on are from the bait shop, "mediums", 2-3 inches.

ewest .

I have a 1.6 acre pond in East Tx. and from time to time I see mussel shells on the shore that the racoons have eaten .

If what you say is about mussel survival is true . How do you explain my shells ?

Harvey

Harvey, we also find mussel shells on the banks of our pond - north of you in Delta Coumnty.
George Glazener

I guess I was looking for a bi-valve expert for this question. I know we have snail, mussels, etc. in several ponds we manage. When I see a good number the shellcracker are of course bigger than in ponds where the snail populaiton is less. I know a litle about fish but not much about bi-valves, help. I wanted to know what species is more common in ponds and where the heck might one buy them. I doubt there is a source but that is why I asked.

I also know I like redear b/c they reduce the snail populaiton when concerned with parasites.

I realize there is alot of overlap with bluegill for food however I find it difficult to believe they compete much with bass. They do not have a hinged jaw and this is how bass feed on much larger size prey. Redear will takedown smaller fish but I think little impact is felt by bass. IN fact overall aid bass forage from reproduction and slower growth befroe escaping bass predation themselves.

If someone knows more info please pass it on. thanks

Harvey :

That info was not from me . It is, as stated from the West Vir. DNR. I have not seen mussels in my ponds but have seen them in creeks and rivers. I have found a number of reports that say RE eat small mussels and snails. The question in my mind is can the mussels live in an impoundment. The source I referenced says not very well. Unlike snails they need moving water.

Does your pond have a creek flowing into it or does it have springs or other flowthrough? If so that may be the answer.

I would like to know the answer to Greg's question as I would like to find a supp. RE feeding method . I have been told that RE do not eat feed from feeders well . I don't know if that is true or not. In case it is I am looking for alternatives. Thanks ewest

Greg
Here is a link to the MDC website on freshwater mussels.There is alot of info on various aquatic life on the website. MO Dept Con mullusks

Greg, you've already forgotten more about fish than I'll ever know. If you agree they readliy take down smaller fish, why don't you simply target a forage species that remains small in size ?

p.s. Now that you got me thinking about mussels, I have an excellent lake near my pond (lake Cisco) that has a HEAVY population of mussels. I will conduct an experiment, I can easily gather a bunch, several hundred in 15-30 minutes...depending on if it's hot and I need a beer. Some that I gather will surely be dead inside, but most will be living. I will place them along my dam, and the incoming seasonal creek channels. I will let you know if they survive pond life in my parts.

Yesterday, I caught ( fly rod and popping bug) what was shaped a lot like a redear and was much paler than my BG, but had a blue gillflap without any hint of yellow, orange, or red at the edge. Is this what a hybrid RE/BG looks like? Is it likely to breed? I return all RE I catch because I like having them around and I don't want to speed up their eventual loss in the breeding wars with BG. I keep all BG of a half-pound or more because I like them for breakfast. I wasn't thinking about a hybrid, so the fish in question joined the filet club, but now I wish (I guess) I had turned it back.
Thanks for any info.
Lou 13.5 acres

H20 thanks for link , good info. I had no idea there were that many species.

Eastland, the problem is limited forage base that woudl not already be utilized by bluegill and/or bass. This is why molluks, mussels, snails are target meals that only the shellcracker might use to gain some weight.

Let me know how the experiment goes. Take a look at a few of them a week after transplant and see if they are alive. I'm just a little concerned if transplanting them is potentail to spread something I'm unaware of.

Here is some more information on freshwater mussels (Unionidae - family).

Numerous freshwater mussels are on the threatened or endangered list. The Mississippi drainage system has a mussel fauna of many species. Many of the mussel species do not tolerate very much pollution and live in relatively clean water. Most freshwater mussels prefer moving water as “ewest” indicates. BUT as I always say it depends.

Several species are well adapted to life in still waters of lakes and ponds as several persons have noticed. In fact some healthy ponds can have very high densites of mussels. The most commonly occurring large mussel in ponds around NW Ohio and probably the midwest is Pyganodon grandis (old name Anadonta grandis) or called by common name as giant floater, floater, stout floater, papershell, hogshell, or slopbucket. Its frequent habitat is ponds, lakes and sluggish mud bottomed pools of creeks and rivers.

Other larger mussel species that can commonly occur in ponds and lakes of the Midwest are:
Common name (scientific name)
Pond papershell – (Utterbackia imbecillis)
Flat floater (Anadonta suborbiculata)
Lilliput (Toxolasma parvus)
Pond mussel (Ligumia subrostrata)
Different regions of North America can have additional species that occur in ponds besides those listed above. Probably the best way to find out which species are likely to live in your local ponds is to go to a pond or lake near you and find out which species or types are living there.
Some of the softer or thinner shelled species of the mussel family Anodontidae are eaten by catfish and sheephead plus young (smaller) ones are eaten by numerous fish feeding on bottom organisms.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Fishing regulations in Ohio forbid collection or possession of freshwater mussel shells – living or dead. Before collecting and transporting any local mussels, I highly suggest you read your state’s fishing or DNR regulations regarding collection or possession of freshwater mussels. A local game warden, “tattle-tale”, or informant may be watching your activities. You could be breaking state and federal law by collecting or transporting live mussels.

FINGERNAIL CLAMS -pea clams, nut clams, pill clams, seed shells (Sphaeriidae-family)

These are small (usu less than 0.5 inch, many ¼-3/8”) whitish, cream, yellowish or brownish colored bivalves collectively called fingernail clams or Sphaeriidae (sphere –eye-dee). They are regularly eaten by numerous fishes including gizzard shad, buffalo, sucker, redhorse, perch and very probably redears and pumpkin seed sunfish. Fingernail clams are found on all types of bottoms except clay or rock. Some can burrow up to 8” or 9” into the soft substrates during a “resting stage”. In favorable bottoms, fingernail clams can occur up to 10,000 individuals per square yard of bottom although most good populations commonly occur at several hundred individuals per square yard. Many untrained individuals do not recognize these small clams in the sediments because many of the adult fingernail clams are ¼” less long. The three primary genera are Sphaerium, Pisidium, and Musclium.

Alkaline water and an abundance of calcium carbonate favor shell construction of numerous mussels although fingernail clams are adapted to a wider range of water conditions than the larger thicker shelled mussels.

SNAILS, (Gastropoda)

Snails commonly occur in most ponds, although rarely does more than one species of each genus occur in the same pond. It has been estimated that about 20% of all fish feed to a greater or lesser extent on mollusks. But only a few types of fish such as suckers, yellow perch, sheepshead, pumpkinseed and redear commonly make snails a large potion of their diet. Waterfowl eat lots of snails. Some aquatic invertebrates prey on snails.

Soft waters with low carbonates usually contain fewer snails. Ponds with harder waters usually contain several species and lots more individuals. As always in nature exceptions occur. Shallower water (less than 9ft) is the favored habitat and this is probably due to more food is present there.
Three general shell types of snails occur in ponds - disk, conical, and limpet (obtuse cone) shapes.

Most snails that you will see in ponds will be the disk shaped or conical shaped snails. The thin shelled tadpole physa snail is one of the most common pond snails these make good fish food because the shell is easy for fish to crush. Other common types in your locality could be the gyro, sprite, rams-horn (Planorbidae), the pond snails (Lymnaeidae) and the rock or horn snails (Pleuroceridae).

The rock or horn snails usually have thick cone shaped shells. I would think they are hard for most fish to crush these shells. Yellow perch do not eat the rams-horn, sprite and gyro snail very well due to their thicker shells however perch and larger sunfishes readily eat the physa type of snail.

Generally speaking, the thinner the shell of a snail, the more likely several species of fish will eat it. Some snail eating fish even redear sunfish may avoid eating the thickest shelled types or species of snails.

Bill Do you know of ANY other way to suplement feed Red Ears??