Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Loaded with Crawfish

I have a new pond about 2 years old.
It is a 1/4 acre and varies from 5' to 16'.
I ordered 150 HBG and 100 CC and they will be here next week.
I got curious after my kids pulled out several crawfish on poles.
I set a trap and in 8 hrs it was full, about 20 large eating size crawfish. on had a 2" sunfish in his claws.
I also have tons of sunfish in this pond.
Should I be conserned about the over population of of crawfish and sunfish when mixing in the smaller HBG and CC.
I have not put in any LMB yet because I wanted to give the HBG a chance.

BigD welcome to PB. What are your goals for the pond? Craws don't catch many live fish. When you say "sunfish" what do you mean? Sunfish include all the bream (BG , GSF, RES , etc and LMB). We could give a better answer if we are sure what is in the pond.

The good things about crawfish is, they come in all sizes and can't run down a fish.

The really tiny babies are eaten by all ages and types of fish. If they survive to full size,
they are relished by bass and large crappie. So fish-wise, I don't think you can go wrong. Dam-
wise, they can be a bit of a pest sometimes.

EWEST

I think they are RES. If there are lots of RES do you think I don't need to add the HGB?

I've pulled CC out of my pond that had their stomachs packed with crawfish. I think a lot of us would love to have your problem!

I doubt that 150 HBG will hurt anything unless you already have too many fish in the pond. However, before stocking anything else, you might want to identify what you have and guesstimate how many of each.

There is something called a biomass that you need to be concerned with. That's the number of organisms, fish in this case, that swim in their own toilet and thus can foul the water. The results can be a disastrous dissolved oxygen crash. That means wall to wall dead fish and some of us, me included, have done it. In my case, more than once and I just might do it again.

If you want bass, consider about a dozen same sex fish. Bass are spawning machines that can turn into a real problem in ponds of less than 1.5 acres. A healthy, balanced, and managed pond can usually handle about 100 pounds of predators per acre.

1/4 acre pond can only support so many fish. Especially catfish, which can dominate the living space when they grow. I might make a choice between cc and lmb but not both in a pond that size unless you plan on harvesting all of the cats out as soon as they are eating size. The amount of cc you are talking about would be good for 1 acre, or a pond 4 times your size.

When those cc get up to size you won't have to worry about crawdads much longer.

I agree with PF.

I have been told about harvesting the CC,and that is what I plan to do with them. 2lbs. max is what I was told. I do plan to put LMB's in, but only 15-20, having all one sex sounds like a great idea, thanks for the head-up. Sounds like the crawfish population is all good.
The HBG are 1-3" and the CC are 4-6". how long should I wait before adding any LMB's?

Depends on how big you plan on getting them. And it is very tough getting all one sex of LMB, let me know how that feasibility study goes. I still might wait until you catch all or many of those cc's out. You have to be just about maxxed on holding capacity as it stands now. Plus too big of LMB, they will start eating those fish you just planted. I just planted a pond over one acre, with 88 cc, I specifically told the guy, you cannot C and R those cats, they have to come out, 1LB or larger for eating. And this pond is loaded with forage, fhm and gambusia, or was, even the little lmb and cc ate everything up in one month, barely two.

Ok I have a about the same situation with a new 1/4 - 1/2 acre pond that I just put about the same balance of fish in it. I went with the HBG as they were recomended since the produce so many male frye I would not have to worry about the pond getting out of control with too many BG.

My concern now is will they make enough offspring, I am considering adding some Coppernose for a good farage base but not sure how many I should add if any.


Just to clarify I also put in 25 each of the following:

Red Ear
Black Crappie
LMB

And 3lbs of FHM

I first was told I could put either LMB or Crappie but not both. Then I was told both but small numbers.

I was told the crappie would not spawn for 2 years so to through them back if I catch them. Not sure they said anything about the bass.

After fishing a few more ponds since I stocked mine and realizing the stunted bass population I am wondering if I should have not put them in.

I first wanted a pond full of Bluegills to take the kids to have some fun and eventually catch some big ones to eat. I was told it would be good to have some fish to keep their numbers down or I would not ever see any large fish.

Anyone have thoughts or recomendations for me?

What are the totals of fish and the size of them that are currently stocked, and 1/4 or 1/2 acre, it makes a big difference? I have to go a pond cleaning/landscaping but it's a short winery job, I'll be back.

The number and size at stocking on December 4th 2009:

125 Hybrid Bluegill 3"-4"
100 Channel Catfish 4"-6"
25 Redear 1"-3"
25 Florida Hybrid Bass 2"-3"
25 Black Crappie 2"-3"
3 lbs Fathead Minnows



I am not sure what size they are now as I have not had a chance to get back over there to try it out.

What size should I expect to see if my pond is healthy?

I do not supplement feed.


Should any of them have spawned by now?

Thanks

Sometimes when I work the wineries and they give me glass after glass when I am done, especially those fine CA ports I am in no shape to post.

Well, I could tell you what you want to hear, or give you my NSA Frog input.

I think you are very top heavy on predator fish and probably out of forage. Very, very tough to have Crappie, Cats and LMB in the same pond. You need constant forage. I love Black Crappie and have a new pond I manage with them, very rare out here. But they are in with LMB, and in this case they look like Chinet plates. And the LMB are fat. Some fish loses out on the forage buffet. I doubt you have any FHM left. I also doubt anything spawned. Hybrid bg are notorious bad spawners, if they do at all. Everything else needs more time.

Typically I like to have a 10-1 ratio on forage fish to predator fish. For example if I stock a 1 acre pond, I like a 1,000 bg mix, with RES being 1/5 of those. Lets say 200 RES, and 800 bg of some sort, I just don't do hybrid bg. Then I have room for 100 lmb. No crappie, no cc. If I add cc, I need a lot of extra baitfish, shiners, fhm and gambusia. Without pellets and the 1/1 ratio I think you used to have on predator/forage I think you are hurting for forage bad at this point. Just my guess here without fishing it.

Well I fished it last night and all we caught were what seems to be green sunfish or at least that is what they look like to me so I am not sure though. Maybe they were a variation of the hybrid, or they somehow appeared in there, but it is a new pond and does not set below any other bodies of water so not sure what happened.


So is there anything I can do now to add forage that will spawn and make more or am I out of luck.

I wish I would have found this site before I stocked the pond since that was the recommendation from them for my max on the pond.

Will the CC not eat anything else besides the frye, I thought they would scavenge around, maybe I was misled.

I also noticed a lot of algae, moss, or something last night but of course not sure what kind it was or what it means.

Anyway recommendations for the above issue would be greatly appreciated.


Also we have a couple more ponds that I think have to be restocked as we could not catch anything out of them last night, not even a nibble.

What would be a good combo nation to start out with so I can at least get them setup correctly?

They are probably in the 1/4 acre and 1/2 acre size as well.

Those are probably the hybrids you caught as many hatcheries put the breed gsf in there for the hybrid.

Cats will eat just about anything they can, but that is only after they eat all of the baitfish and fry they are able to.

There is a lot of great info on this site and many great contributors. I can only give you input from my experience. First, you need some kind of forage cover, especially in the shallows. Marginal plants and other shoreline hiding places.

Next, I'd introduce forage fish first, without any predators. Maybe some good ol regular bg, and some bigger ones, 3-5" ready to breed. Some shiners, fhm and gambusia. Whatever works for you as far as forage. You want established forage, and you want it to continue for some time.

Then, after a month, six months to a year, put in your predator type fish. You can mix and match them to some extent, or pick your preference. If you had multiple ponds I'd make one a cc pond, another a lmb pond and a crappie pond. And try to keep your ratios for continuing forage vs predator around 10-1. The reasons for the forage first is for one, give them a chance to breed for sustainability, and two, give them a chance to find cover and acclimate. And when you introduce those mean guys, try to keep it under 8-1. Maybe 10-1. It will let your forage last a lot longer. Consider tilipia, pellet feeding also.

Not much more I can say not standing next to your pond. But sometimes when you start, less is better. Don't try to jam too many fish into a small pond. And keep the forage plant size bigger than the predator plant size, as far as bg. Maybe stick with a purebread bg, a cnb, or a standard.

What is a Florida Hybrid Bass?

I would presume a F1.

If you have an overabundance of CC and LMB, don't catch and release. Take every one you catch out, or they get hook shy, and you'll never be able to catch most them again. BC are dumber,,, I think you are more likely to catch the same ones twice.

The good news about the HBG is they will soon be gone, eaten by predators and anglers, and out bred by pure BG.

so would it be a good idea to add some coppernose since they spawn earlier?

also how old do the coppernose or other sunfish have to be before they have their first spawn?

also how long does it take for the bass or crappie to spawn for the first time?

why is it good for the HBG to be gone?

I am not aware that CNBG spawn earlier than northern BG. I am not an expert on that though, but as far as I know they spawn in the same water temps. If you are far enough south, which I believe you may be for CNBG to survive the winters, then CNBG may be a good option. They don't like much ice cover, so if you pond regularly freezes over stick with pure northern BG.


Typically, around 4" and 2 years old. However, this is highly variable as different ponds have different growth rates based on growing season, fertility, food sources and competition among other things.



Again, like sunfish(BG, RES, etc), bass and crappies maturity size and time is highly variable for much the same reasons. Most new ponds in the south could probably see bass spawning as 2 year olds. Older northern ponds could see bass spawning as old as 4 or even 5. Typically the size they first spawn at is in the 9"-12" range. Crappies mature a bit faster, closer to typical sunfish size and ages.



HBG have a place in pond management, as does almost any fish... It just all depends on the pond owner's desires and goals. HBG take up biomass. Since they are not prolific spawners, if the goal is to grow larger bass, you want pure BG who are prolific spawners filling up that biomass and making food for the bass. You don't want HBG taking up that biomass as they aren't producing large amounts of forage for your bass to eat. That would probably be the most common reason you'd want the HBG to be "gone" and replace by pure BG.

I'm not aware of the low temp tolerance of a CNBG. Anybody?