Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Pike

I have always been very interested in pike, and have read through tons of pages here and elsewhere about adding them and I understand that they are sometimes used to limit heavy bass populations. However, I was wondering has anyone ever designed and stocked a small lake or large pond based around quality northern pike fishing. I would think it would have to be kind of large, around 10 acres or so with some marshy flatlands that flood for spring breeding. I have read a lot also about northerns eating pond owners "out of house and home" but, I think building a pond around pike might work. Any suggestion of forage fish? It would have to be something that breeds a lot and grows fairly large, maybe gizzard shad? It would be nice to establish a pretty heavy pike/acre ratio. Do you think this is possible? This is all theoretical by the way. Thanks.

CRB, welcome to the forum. Until another more qualified member chims in ill make this statement. What ever the forage chosen is it needs to have the body of lmb style fish not a bg. Pike are able to eat that shape easier. You would need a forage that spawns like a bg. Maybe a type of shad?

In nature they eat yellow perch among other things. Not sure if perch reproduction alone could keep up. I would think they would eat bluegill if there were no other choice even if their shape is not ideal.

I personally would go with Pike, LMB, perch and sunfish for a balance.

But, If you want only pike as a predator, maybe perch and green sunfish as forage since green sunfish are more slender than bluegill. That would be an interesting combo and the green sunfish fans may chime in!! However, as the pike get bigger, they are going to want larger forage than the perch or sunfish, probably.

How about Chain pickerel instead of pike? Similar in most ways but don't get as big

I suspect the GSF is already moving agents into place to fully assess the nature of your comments. If they find you to be in any way sincere about your suggestion to sacrifice the sanctity green sunfish by making them into forage fish, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes! And besides, I'm pretty sure a GSF can eat a pike if it chooses to!

Actually, I am a member of the GSA and have the decoder ring to prove it. However, since you mentioned it, I did see a suspicious black Chevy Suburban following me home earlier, so they may think I am a mole or double agent.

And yes, I think at least JHAP's large GSF could take down a Pike.

Man, you guys are just... I put this guy in charge a couple months ago to nail the GSA down. Get over it! There are NO outs!!!

I dont think the gsf could keep up with the reproduction needed to feed pike.

I think GS would work fine for a food source. They get large enough, and will survive the winters. But, I don't know enough about Pike and how they work at catching prey. If Pike like to stay close to cover and ambush their prey in short fast spurts without a lot of turns, will they venture to open water to chase GS?

Here are my thoughts... First, if trophy pike fishing is the goal, I'd skip on attempting to get them to spawn in my pond. The odds even with intentionally building a marshy area of them naturally reproducing is probably pretty low in a small pond of only 10 acres or so... However, I would do everything possible to prevent natural reproduction so you have complete control of the number of fish you have in your pond. If natural reproduction does occur, you will have to work very hard at removing every pike you catch under a certain size, probably 24"-30" in size and maybe even larger than than...

I would maintain the population by annual stockings. Stocking 12"-16" pike at 1 per acre. So if you had a 10 acre lake, you'd stock 10 per year.

As far as forage, I would stock feathead minnows(FHM), golden shiners(GSH) and yellow perch(YP) in the beginning. As the pike population starts to reach a point where 25% of the population is over 30", then I would consider stocking gizzard shad. I would guesstimate that happening at around year 6-8.

To continue CJ's thoughts: let's guess that the 10-acre pond in CT can support 10 pounds of pike per acre. That's a reasonable guess in a "hypothetical" situation. So, the question is, do we want the pond to have 20 5-pound pike (2/acre) or 10 10-pound pike (1/acre). We don't need much reproduction (or stocking) to maintain this population unless we plan a lot of harvest.

Dave, would leaving out all predatory fish but the pike bump up the pond's carry capacity for pike?

Honestly, I don't know, CJ. I suspect so, wouldn't you? However, it's only usually a small proportion. So, if we got rid of (or didn't introduce) 40 pounds/acre of LMB, how much "room" would there be for "bioreplacement" with pike? Maybe a few pounds per acre? That's what we usually see. Even though we think that both pike and LMB are top predators, their "roles" in the pond would actually be somewhat different.

In the end I think you could have a few moderate sized pike or a small handful of bigger pike. I think this thread sort of relates to the 4 acre? pond you retenoned and found 4 pike and a few plump but small GSF... Tough to have a quality pike fishery in ponds and small lakes. Even when you try really hard to manage for them.

Again, I sure agree with you CJ. That's what I've seen with pike in ponds of several acres. Either there are a lot and they are mostly small, or there are very few, but can get large. Haven't ever seen 20 pounders, but 10 pounders are not unique.

Lusk has taught me not to say "no" to a management option such as pike. He always said that pondowners need to set their management priorities, and then we biologists can give the owners the pros and cons of a situation. I used to say pike shouldn't go in ponds. Now, I just point out the realistic situation. Plus, all this talk about pike in ponds and being a little more open-minded is how we got to the idea of a few pike to help control LMB overpopulation. A few pike of one sex (= no reproduction) in a pond will really work on the overly abundant 8-12 inch LMB. As a result, I've seen those ponds actually end up with bigger bass, and still have their quality panfish. The key, of course, is getting the right amount of pike. Too many pike and things can really go downhill quickly.

For the first two years of membership all of our members are on "observed" to ensure that they are in fact dedicated to our cause.

CRB, Don't know if this will be of any help, but in Dwight's pond he has about a half dozen female NP that all seem to grow pretty well. He was lucky and when his 5.1 acre pond was sealed that only females were locked in the pond. We have yet to see any evidence of a male NP. Some other ponds I fish in the area have had well meaning fisherman throw in some live NP, but if there is a combo of males and females and they spawn, it seems to me that you end up with a few larger females, and many small NP we call hammer handles. I imagine this could vary with some pond management, amount of forage, etc. I have a pond behind my home that used to be dominated by LM Bass, Crappie, and Bluegill. Someone planted some NP in there, now it is mostly small crappie and many hammer handles. So just throwing in a few NP messed up the whole pond. Not that I don't like to catch NP, but the small ones aren't good for much. I am a fisherman not a pond specialist, just relaying what I have experienced

Thanks guys, there's a lot of the answers here that I was looking for. But, do you guys think that if spawning occurs, and I fish out enough of the smaller pike then it could work? I don't mind eating pike really, the bones are a nuisance at first by I'm pretty good at removing them now. I would think that GS and YP would be good forage food, they get pretty big, and breed like crazy I hear. I wouldn't want green sunfish, as their not native over in the northeast. Really, any sunfish wouldn't be targeted too often unless they're easy prey if fusiform fish like YP are present. Also, I hear that fathead minnows are really just an expensive snack, and never really last long.

Have you considered Tiger Musky as opposed to Northerns? Tiger Musky (hybrid between a Musky and Pike) are apparently more tolerant of water conditions than Pike, and sterile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskellunge#Subspecies_and_hybrids

http://www.mightymusky.com/articles/mnsportsmanarticle.htm

I agree with Txelen and Stick - go single sex NP or consider Tiger Muskie. You can always revert to a spawning population of NP but can't ever go back unless you want to rotenone and start over.

I would like to get a Tiger Musky for my little pond if I could find some, but I have never seen them for sale

http://www.trophygamefishinc.com/ They are in MN but will overnight you a single tiger. They aint cheap... They are usually available in the fall.

Thanks for the link CJ, but all I see is a $2500 minimum order. I could see 50 bucks, but $2500 is out of my price range

If you call them, they usually are willing to work with you...

I was just thinking about this thread today. Would it be possible to manage a medium sized (3-5 acre) pond as a light-pressure Tiger Musky fishery? Having a pond that was a source of a couple 34"+ Tigers each year would be pretty nifty.

It seems that the main problem is providing sufficient fusiform forage. Would bullhead make a good forage species for larger Musky? Black Bullhead reproduce quickly, rarely get too large for a decent Musky to handle, do well in midwestern-type waters, and can eat from close to the bottom of the food chain.

TX

I continually find myself right in step with the way you think...we gotta get on the phone one of these days!

I love your project idea, one that I've been entertaining for a while, also. I feel TM would fit in many pond scenarios and one wouldn't have to simply focus on a two species pond. I agree, TM do need forage, but they can easily handle sizable YP and BG. I totally understand your BH reasoning, but why not create a fishery that not only boasted trophy TM but also trophy YP, BG, and SMB or LMB and add a sustainable forage fish like GSH? IMO the TM will apply tons of pressure on the other species and while their population might not be strong, the fish around will be large. That's my reasoning, but it's just an educated WAG.