Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain coppernose bream yes or no

I recently stocked my new pond this spring by trapping fish from a friends pond that was supposedly only coppernose and red ear, and NO hybrids. I purchased red ear, but did not actually seem them put in the pond. Have recently started to catch and release fish, could not wait any longer. Noticed many fish have coppernose characteristics, but many are a greenish-blue hue with no coppernose coloring, but did not see any red on the ears of the afore mentioned fish. They were all palm size. Is it possible that I have green sunfish. How do you tell the difference. Are these just immature coppers or redears ?????
Any thoughts from any one.

Bob,
The reason green sunfish are less desirable are because they have a large mouth & will eat many things your preditor fish will eat therefore competing with them.
I don't know the measurements but greenies should have a noticeably larger mouth than regular b/g or red ear.
Hopefully Bill C or some other knowledgeable pond miester will reply.

Ric, thanks for the reply. Further research linked green perch and goggle-eye. I have caught goggle-eye before in Toledo Bend, they have a large mouth like a bass. So the fish in question is definitely no that one, but it got me to wondering about hybrids regressing to green perch. Wondering is kin to thinking and can be dangerous for the unprepared ! Do Coppernose and Redear male and female have different colorings in the immature and mature state. This fish was about 3-4 inches long.

Thanks-- my mother was a biology teacher and father was a WWII vet, therefore I read English.

Green sunfish not green perch. All the southern boys confuse the sunfish family with the perch family. Yellow perch and walleye are are best fish and they are in the perch family. Greenies are sunfish and are a curse if you get them in Wisconsin.

Brian, thanks for the clarification. Since you did not say "WE" southern boys, I have to assume that you are somewhere north of I-20. I do indeed usually say "I'm gone bream fishing or I am gonna jerk some perch " I would be understood and the only question was when is the fish fry. BUT if I say " I am going to try and enhance my freezer with some sunfish" They think I am going down to the coast to try and catch one of those big fish with a long bill " So, the lesson for the day is -- Green sunfish=greenies=bad and Green Perch=good=usally fishing up north.

Thanks- have a great day ! Give a man some fish and he may or may not eat them , but teach a child to fish and they will someday teach their children to fish, that's why I built this pond. Had two 4 year old's just yesterday catch their first fish. I do not know who had more fun them or me. Actually my 24 year old " fisherman" son had one of them and I had the other. I think that they had more fun holding the fish to put it in the bucket than catching the fish. That's why I made a bream pond instead of a catfish pond. I remembered that as a child I did not listen to my Dad about grabing the catfish a certain way !!

It is said that " a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money !" What then is a pond ? A hole in the ground from which you draw out enjoyment, along with a little extra work to do.

Bob, I think one of the most import things Pond Boss magazine and this forum does is expose us to an international view of pond/lake management. In so doing, it expands our view of what is possible with our lakes. People that think LMB are the ultimate in game fish find out that they are not. The same is true of walleye fishermen here in the north. I find it fascinating to read the cold conditions our friends in Canada put up with. It humbles even some of our South Dakota winters.

Another thing this international readership does is forces us to use accurate terminology so we can communicate with each other. In order to comment on different species, we need to know exactly what we are talking about. We certainly welcome your ideas, we just want to make sure we know what you are talking about.

Bob,
I understood perfectly what you were talking about.
Wondering is kin to thinking and can be dangerous for the unprepared !
Very true!
Now back to your question: I can't answer but perhaps someone else can.

Thanks Norm, it is true about proper identification. I got into the Texas Parks and Wildlife web site http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fish/infish/species/index.phtml... And if you can pull it up you can see some of the confusion for us less knowledgeable pond meisters.As the following examples were listed.
Bluegill-Lepomis macrochipus--ie: Bream,brim,perch,sunfish,sunperch.
Or Green Sunfish--Lepomis cyanellus--ie: goggle-eye,rock bass,branch perch
Or Redear Sunfish--Lepomis microlophus--ie: shellcracker, Georgia Bream,cherry gill, sunny,sun perch. I won't even get started on what the guy across the street calls them. But I am learning slowly. I was reading a thread recently about " bullheads" taking over a guy's pond and the discussions on where and how they came from. Aside from the many varied sworn and true opinions as to the ways " bullheads" enter the pond system. With each writer sincerely believing as to his knowledge of the transplantation routes of " bullheads"---- I got to wondering what the "H..." a " bullhead " is and then I got wondering again if I had them in my pond. I think ( getting dangerous again) I finally figured out that they were a type of catfish , still not sure ... So there you go----do I want them or not and what are they---
" bullheads" that is......Are we having fun yet?

I was going to make a point, but random thoughts clouded my thinking ( lost in a fog ) Oh ! I remember now --"Greenies" were not listed on that web site

Is there or should there be a collection of fish names catalogued in such a way that it list the official name ( most common and latin genus)-- PLUS PICTURE MALE AND FEMALE-- and then the various names for each fish .... you could have northern,southern,Texan ( special) then by states and vaious other colloquil terms. This sounds like a good research paper for some up and comming Fisheries Biologists --- a whole lot more meaningful and important then the breeding habits of the sand dollar sprint minnow ( I hope I didn't step on somebody's pet project)///// Sometimes the messages acknowledge where a contributor is from and then sometimes not. It would then be helpful to know which language he or she was speaking by crossmatching the name used compared to where that name ( of the fish) is commonly used. Example : Green perch ( northern) are good.

Then us fingerlings ( hey I just noticed-- I've become a lunker) could click on to a special Pond Boss website and down load quicker than a " cherry Gill" suckin up a cricket all kinds of useful names and terms that most everybody else seems to know.

Or has somebody done this already ???

I think it would be less trouble to just rename that thing that I'm told is the only real perch. Or at least make everyone use the adjective "yellow". Retraining everybody down South, including the TPWD, is about as smart as creating a numbering system called a zip code and teaching everyone in America to use it instead of teaching the postal employees geography. Oh well, as they say; "The times they are achanging".

Amazon lists a book called "Freshwater Fishes of Texas" for about $10. I've not read it but it might be a place to start. Maybe some other Texans can comment on this book.

This may be dangerous , but I think that my idea about the Fisheries Biologist thing could be done very easy by Pond Boss.

Step one: Have someone at Pond Boss Forum--( Ask the Boss) set up a separate heading of Fish Classifications--ie: names. This could be northern and southern zones or by states. But I am envisioning kind of a Zonal lines, north to south ,similar to the planting zones that they have for planting shrubs, and vegetables. Common fish per zone , showing a picture of the fish, and proper name ( latin version for those interested) and common local names. Fish names would have a number assigned to them and as each member has time to visit the heading or file, they could identify their fish, if a common name used by them is not listed then it could be submitted for inclusion to the fishes names. It could be further broken down into best habitation for Lakes, small, medium,large ponds. Such as --Black Crappie -one acre pond or bigger

I serious now, stay with me on this.

It would not take some parttime employee at PB or some already Fishery Biologist very long to make this list. Dividing it by Northern and Southern Zones seems best, since fish will grow in certain temperature zones. Example from today's discussion--- Green perch-Wisconsin as far south as ?????? Coppernose-Florida,Miss,La.,Tex ectera as far north as ????? Information could be updated when someone has had success growing a species in an unusual area of the zone. This opens up possibilities for other pond guys to try.

The list from TP&W is a good start for the Southern fish... I am sure there is some Parks and Wildlife from the northern states that has a list of common fish

Step two: Once compiled it could be placed in the permanent files of The Pond Boss Library that could be easily accessed thru a forum heading. Once compiled it would be of great reference as to fish names to use in discussion and to know their best areas of habitation or stockability. Maybe it's just late in the day and I am a little overly excited , but the possiblilties for this type of available knowledge located in one place , to me seems to open up endless possibilities of communication and sharing of knowledge.

I find it hard to believe that this is a new idea or is it. Does this type of collective knowledge exist somewhere, if so where, but it should be here for permanent access and updating. I have seen bits and pieces of this information thru out the forum library, but not in one concise place.

I'm still trying to find out what a " bullhead" is.

Does anybody else think this is a needed item ?

Hi Bob,

I am one of the guys, whose pond was taken over by Black Bullhead catfish. If you go back to the Texas Parks and Wildlife freshwater fish identification webpage, click on the "Catfish & Bullheads" picture.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fish/infish/species/catfish/

The good thing is, they are not bad to eat once you get the mud taste out.

BTW, my fishing buddy is from Louisiana. You should see the names they come up with. Except for catfish and bass, we hardly ever know if we are talking about the same fish!

There are couple of pictures on pg 2 and 3 of this thread.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000127;p=3

ER

Thanks Ed . I got hung up about the bream-perch thing that I did not look any further at the catfish. Thanks for locating the thread about the bullheads. What is the best way to remove the mud flavor or does it depend on the mud.

So is it fairly common that sooner or later you will find these critters in your pond ? Or is it one of those " just depends " things ?

I think it depends on your circumstances. All the ponds that I know, that are connected to bayous or lakes, have them. Even when it is just occasional overflow. It seems that good predator population helps keep them down, along with seining the tight balls of young in the spring(if you have a small pond). I was hoping that Pond Boss would do an article on them, because to me, they are more of a problem than the Green Sunfish. Well, I am not as upset about them now that I ate some.

As for the flavor, I heard that you can soak the filets in milk for a while(?). Commercial operations keep carp and catfish in clean water tanks for some time before marketing them. There may be other ways...

I hope you never need to learn more about them.

Thanks again Ed: My pond is filled with runoff and by my well, that's a start. I'll store this bit of wisdom and knowledge for the future, should it come.

My Dad used to throw all of his catfish into our cattle watering tank for a couple of weeks before eating them. This would get rid of the muddy taste. It would probably work with bullheads also.

Norm, I don't mean to mean anything disrespectful, but didn't the cattle watering tank have an unusual flavor of it's own I mean cows and water and cows being----cows..... The catfish must be pretty powerful up in South Dakota. I don't know about the bullheads yet though, but if they are that bad I might try borrowing my neighbor cattle farmer's pond for a few weeks. Even if he does look at me kinda funny when I ask him. He has a nervous twitch in his eye anyway. Must be all that hay he has been baleing this summer.

Norm, I did not mean to hit the send button twice ! Sorry. But I was able to pull up the list of the fish in South Dakota, Man you all (ya'll)have a slew ( bunch) of really neat ( unusaul) looking fish .

Bob,
If you click on the pen & paper icon straight to the right of your name on one of the posts you can delete it.

Bob, the kind of tank I'm talking about is a round metal tank. We filled it from a well. Except for a little bit of hay, it was always clean. This was in central Nebraska and I think many farmers/ranchers did this with catfish.

And a double thanks to Ric and Norm, both bits of knowledge that will be placed in the " to be used" file , for future use. One technical and one practical.

Down here we think of a pond ( a hole in the ground with sloping sides -no dam) out on the range when someone says cow tank. some of us think of a round metal tank as an above ground pool or temporary trout pond.

And now I know how to erase one of my wonderings that escaped into printed expression of thought that after further review should have remained in the wondering domain hidden from human awareness.

Do pond miesters ever have a convention about ponds and fish where they convene to cuss and discuss the varied art of fisheries aquaculture and maybe have various pond supporting companies come and show off their valuable commodities??

In simple terms-- a Pond Convention

Bob, regarding fishin hole conventions; I attended a seminar hosted by some people last year. They said it would be held every other year and next year ought to be it. It was advertised in PB mag and I don't know where else. Must have been advertised elsewhere because hundreds of pond and lake owners attended. I also remember a pond seminar by the TPWD at the hatchery in Athens a couple of years back. Then there was the attempt last year to talk everyone into dropping in on Lusk for a couple of days and talking him into buying the beer and barbecue. He got narrow minded about it or maybe his wife said he couldn't go out and play.

All of the green sunfish and the BG X GS hybrids have an orange to orange/yellow border on the caudal, anal and posterior portion of the soft dorsal fin. Purebred bluegill lack any bordered coloration on these fins.

An interesting side note: The so called Georgia Giant that is touted as a "super-fish" in some circles has this orange border in all of the web-site photos, but the picture that claims to depict a 5 lb. specimen lacks the border. Maybe once they reach 5 pounds the edge of the tail falls off!

Hey Bob, I used to eat bullhead's as a kid. We soaked them in milk for 2-3 hrs. before frying. It works great. When the milk turns pink you'll know it's time to start the fire.