Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Flaherty's Fish Farm in Arkansas

Has anyone ever used them for stocking? They are in close proximity to where I live (roughly an hour's drive) so I'm thinking a minimal mortality rate on the fish. Just wondering if anyone has had good or bad results/experiences with them. Also are there any other good farms in the South Arkansas/ North Louisiana area that you would recommend?

Hey Steven,

RC here I have not used Flaherty's or heard anything good or bad about them. I am quite a ways North from you, but if I hear anything I will let you know. I have used Hopper Stephens in Lonoke AR. And Arkansas Pond Stockers out of Batesville and they were both really good. I know they are to far away for you but it's always good know about fisheries in the state. Let me know if you find anything out. Maybe someone else here will have some input on them. Good luck.

I've never ordered anything from http://www.sunrisefisheries.com/ but they were very nice when I talked to them about possibly ordering some inland silversides from them as they are the only hatchery I have found that sells them. They are in Lake Village, AR if that is anywhere near you...

Thanks for the info guys. Lake Village is about an hour and a half from me so that's probably doable. I'll check them out as well. If I use Flahertys I'll let everyone know about the experience.

BTW, what are you looking to buy?

We might be able to give you some pointers of what to keep an eye out for.

Well I'm still doing some research. The pond right now is about 3/4 acre in size and I'm working on a design that would nearly double it. Problem is it's a spring fed pond that as near as I can tell is around 70 years old. really what I need to do is bust the levee and drain it, scrape it out, dig the new area and start over. one problem, the levee sits on neighboring property. They are ok with keeping the levee there but don't want to bust it because it would flood their timber they are getting ready to cut. I'm probably going to leave it like it is right now and just get my population back in check. then enlarge it a little at a time.
FISH: I'm wanting LMB/BG pond with a few catfish.
I've been watching the shoreline and fishing it some. Doesn't seem to be a lot of baitfish and small bream so I've got to address that need as well. not many bass or they are hard to catch (I'm a tournament bass fisherman so I feel like I could catch 'em if they were there.)
I'm thinking 100 F1 largemouth
200 Hybrid bluegill
100 redear bream
10 lbs FHM
25-50 CC
Am I close?

CJ,

Are you referring to Brook Silversides (Labidesthes sicculus)?

I am referring to Menidia beryllina.

We can comment more on the stocking numbers, but I wonder why you are going for hybrid bluegill vs. just regular ole bluegill?

The hybrids don't spawn as heavily as standard bluegill thus not providing as much forage base for your bass.

Not knowing what all is in the pond now should be considered, especially when seeing what size of fish you can get for stocking, so they don't get eaten.

Steve,

There are 2 Flaherty's in Arkansas that have nothing to do with one another. One is reputable and one is not quite so.....

I was thinking hybrid bluegill because I like the idea of larger bluegill for fishing purposes maybe I'd be better off going with 100 of each?

The Hybrids will out grow the regular BG for the first year or 2, then the regular BG's will surpass the Hybrids. Keep in mind that without having pellet trained LMB, they will rely totally on what the pond produces for forage, and a single LMB needs 10# of food to gain 1# in weight. Will there be enough forage in the pond for the amount of LMB that are in the pond?

The FHM will be food for the small LMB (<8" or so), the Hybrids, some of the larger BG and the CC at night. I'd think about putting in some larger forage, such as Golden Shiners or Tilapia for the LMB if legal. The Tilapia will focus some of the LMB/BG predation off of the BG, allowing the BG forage base to grow quicker.

How are the LMB looking in the pond? Good WR?

The bass population is pretty small I think. I'd say there's less than 100 in the pond most of which are in the 1.5 to 3 lb range. I'm actually thinking about waiting until fall to stock the bass so that the baitfish have a chance to take hold.

If that's true, then you have between 150 and 300 pounds of LMB in the pond.

Read this thread completely and thoroughly, run the numbers on your pond and you might be suprised on what you'll come up with.

Wow... I read that thread and I think I'm more confused than ever!!!! I may have to get another degree to figure it out!

From an old thread. FYI

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=60415&fpart=1

It is important to note that this data is on growout ponds (aquaculture methods) not sport fish ponds. They are vastly different in purpose , methods and results.

I have copied conclusions from part of the cited study. Note that a male BG only growout pond would under these conclusions " substantially outgrow both hybrid sexes and female bluegill" and " male bluegill posses the inherent capacity to grow to food-market weights within 2 years while female bluegills and both sexes of the hybrid sunfish take longer even under the best of growing conditions " .

There is no independent disinterested scientific data that I know of that includes fecundity ( # and % male/female offspring) info on GG nor on their growth rate vs HBG (other than the one short term 12 week study) and none vs male only BG. The Hayward and Wang study on Inherent Growth Capacity and Social Costs of Bluegill and Hybrids of Bluegill and Green Sunfish: Which Fish Really Grows Faster? shows a similar conclusion as the cited study and is in the context of BG growout for food production over the 2 yr. growout time frame as opposed to 12 weeks. Please see the last sentence of the quote for the answer as best the disinterested science to this point allows one to know.

Quote below :

The conclusions of a recently completed 2-year NCRAC project on sunfish pond culture are: 1) male bluegill have the capacity to substantially outgrow both hybrid sexes and female bluegill, 2) hybrid sunfish tend to grow better in ponds because of the bluegill tendency for substantial in-pond reproduction, higher social costs, and 3) hybrid sunfish are better able to utilize natural feeds (NCRAC 2002).

In a NCRAC-funded project at the University of Missouri (UM) it has been determined that male bluegill possess the inherent capacity to grow to food-market weights within 2 years while female bluegills and both sexes of the hybrid sunfish take longer even under the best of growing conditions (NCRAC 2003). This data provide evidence that efforts to rear Lepomis species to food-market weights within the established 2-year benchmark for grow out should focus on male bluegills.

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I think your observation about overcrowding is part of the answer as it results from what are classified " social costs or social interaction costs" as a pratical matter. The studies refer to social costs as best I can describe them as the use of energy by fish in activites (other than growth) that have to do with social order like dominance and reproduction including running off cuckholders and sneekers ,nesting, mating and guarding eggs then fry. Both BG and HBG have social costs but the BG's are much higher I assume because they invest much more energy in offspring reproduction. Think about how much energy and quality growth time (spring and summer) male BG use up if they spawn and guard eggs and fry for 50 days over that period. HBG because they are 90% male don't invest as much in spawning or nest guarding and the fecundity of the few females is much less. Because BG are more successful they end up overcrowding as you noted. Thus remove the female BG from the equation and you get larger male BG which out grow HBG.

I am going back to some of the studies to see if they take into account the fact that 90% +- of the HBG are male when they use avg. lengths and weights to say HBG are bigger. Because females are smaller it may skew the growth comparison. Maybe they should calculate a BG avg. using 90% males and 10% females and compare that for growth purposes to HBG.

One factor that is not addressed here much but is in the studies is catchability and aggressive behavior by HBG. Most of the info stresses this point as the main reason for using HBG over BG but warns about the ease of fishing them out.

That makes pretty good sense. I'm sold on the concept that pure strain bluegill will overpopulate their foodsource if not managed. I'm thinking about an experiment that would involve several different species but I'm not sure how to set it up yet. If I try it I'll post the project in it's stages to see how it develops.
One more round of questions. Is the Georgia Giant a just a hyped up HBG or is it a different type of hybrid? I have heard that they will stunt after about 3 generations. Can this be avoided if you add new specimens each year or is it genetic?

This is a good tread. I've stocked both the BG and the HBG. I want to see different in the growth myself. It's a small pond that I can easily manage the population of these fish. Ewest your right about the easier to catch on the HBG. The sunfish part of the Hybrid gill with the large mouth has them hitting on FHM that the straight gills would never try.( caught a few on rooster tail too)
I have read that after two or three offspring they will be more of a sun fish then the gill. Have you seen this?

To start Your day : I Will Have A double Coffee Vodka Moca Valium Latte to go please!!!!!!!

There's a lot of past discussions about Georgia Giants here, Steven.

There are many stories of unsuspecting pond owners being taken advantage of by the source of the Georgia Giants.

But, being educated about what you want, and fish in general, would help if you choose to buy the GGs.

Many might say the GGs are some type of hybrid, but nobody really knows.

When using GGs, the original stocked fish are the jewels, so to speak, and the offspring are usually meant to get eaten by other predators. The same would not apply for pure bluegill. With pure bluegill, the original stockers are the 'jewels' and the offspring are also jewels (well, the ones that don't get eaten anyway!).

makes sense. I would think that to be true for most hybrid species.