Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Need help with a pond.

Well I will start off by trying to explain the pond as best as I can. The pond is located in Nebraska. It is roughly 1.5 acres and is estimated to be 25ft deep. The ponds age is un-know but is thought to be 20-25 years old. There are two aerators that run from a few weeks after ice out to a few weeks before ice in. I have fished this pond for 3 years now and have been thinking that there maybe things I can do to increase the the chance of catching bigger heathier fish.

More info.....The pond has a large population of bluegill from what I can see. I see hundreds 5-6" bluegills swimming around in the shallows every time I fish. The largest fish I have caught of this pond is a 6lbs. LM bass. But after fishing it a lot I have started to notice that there are a lot of 12-14" bass in the pond as well. So I am starting to wonder if the pond is stunted.

This is what I was thinking of doing to the pond.

Step 1: Clean up all of the trash and unwanted matter in the pond. (other people fish this pond)

Step 2: Add structure, I was thinking of making some of the PVC trees and PVC balls.

Step 3: Determine if the pond is stunted and then fix it.

Im hoping to get this is be trophy pond and re-stocking is out of the question. I'll admit that I just dont want to spend the money to do that.

Let me know what you think I should do or what I can do to help out the pond. Should I first determine if the pond is stunded before I go and put structure in it?

Im hoping for a lot of responses and I am hoping to get a lot of help.

Thanks, Kyle Hope you guys can help me fix my pond.

Kyle:

Welcome! We'll do the best that we can with the information thay you provide. Be prepared for a bunch of questions.

Before you go thru a bunch of work and time to improve the fishery, I gotta ask, will the other people that fish the pond be on-board with helping to manage the fishery? (For instance, I'm meaning that if it's determined that a certain fish of a certain size really should stay in the pond, will they catch/release that size, or will they keep them?)

To help determine if the fish are stunted, it's a simple matter of weighing the fish on an accurate scale (to the ounce), and get an accurate length measurement. Go to the the sub forum that's titled Common Pond Q&A (archives) and look for a thread titled Relative Weight Charts. Compare the fish that you're catching to what is listed and report back. There is a bunch of information in the archive forum as well. Or click on this and it'll take you to that thread.

When you say "trophy", what does that mean to you? What other species of fish are in the pond?

"trophy" to me means is I have an good chance to catch a 5lb+ fish every time I fish the pond.

Sorry I forgot to add that there are also catfish. Im not sure what kind, im not a catfisherman. Ive seen a guy pull out 3 that were 10-12lbs but thats the biggest ive seen or heard of.

About the other guys following the "plan" Well all of the guys I have talked to that I know fish the pond are all catch and release. So i was thinking last night for a step 4 would be put up catch and release only signs around the pond. Then I would be the only person that is taking fish out. Yes I know there could be that one guy that could break that rule but hopefully everyone will follow the rules.

Maybe I should of added this as well that the pond is a neighboorhood pond and around 20 houses are a part of the neighboorhood so thats 20-25 people that can fish it. I only know of 5 people that fish it.

Hope this infomation helps you guys out.

And I hope the questions and info keep coming.

Thanks

Im not sure if I put this post in the right place because im not getting many responses. Or is this a popular topic and im kind of beating a dead horse.

Well ive been doing a lot of fishing on the pond and I havent caught any large fish yet. All the fish have been 12-15" but seem to be fatter than past few years for this time of year.

Another observation ive noticed after looking around on this forum. Is I dont see all that many old bluegill beds. Maybe there are really not as many bluegill in the pond as I thought. I think that lack of beds is due to the fact that there are no shallow areas in the pond. I went walking around in it, in my waders and couldnt go more that 10-12 ft off shore before it was to deep and that was on 3/4 of the lake. The other 1/4 i could walk out about 20-25ft off shore. There is maybe only 10-15% or maybe even less than that that is 2ft deep or less.

Another observation ive noticed is that there is no vegatation in the lake. There is on small bush maybe 2ft off the shore and 4ft long of catails but other than that there is no major vegatation. There is just a small layer of "slim" on the bottom in places. Not sure if this is good or bad. Its great for crankbaits tho.

The bottom of the pond seems to be a sandy mud. The water clarity is 3-4ft right now when the wind is calm.

Also going to go ahead and put some PVC structure in, not a lot but maybe 3-5 "trees" or "balls" or "logs" Im sure that more structure cant hurt.

I hope that I can get some responses on this. Im really looking for some help.

Let me know if I should get this thread moved to a different area to get more post or maybe this is just like beating a dead horse.

Kyle

Kyle:

Usually wave action or other critters moving around on the pond bottom will fill in the BG beds within a month or so. I know were the BG made beds in my pond and there are no traces of them now. BR WILL find a place to spawn, even if it's in a 3' strip of water around the edge of the pond.

You don't really need weeds in the pond, but cover is needed for the YOY to hide in. If not, then the LMB have easy pickings. IIRC 20% of the surface area in cover is what's recommended.

Well im kind of new the lingo as well so what is IIRC???

Also is there any way that I can find out if I have any FHM? I was thinking of possibly putting in some pallets for them to spawn on. Not really sure if I have any yet. I have seen some small minnow like fish but im not sure if they are small LMB or FHM's.

Back to the stunted stuff. Does it matter if the bluegill in the pond are stunted?

Im not full sure if the LMB are but im almost positive the BG are.

Thanks for the response, keep them coming!!!

IIRC= If I Remember Correctly

If there are LMB in the pond, the BG shouldn't be stunted - at least that's what the general thoughts are.

FHM in my pond are in the very, very shallow water - 6" and less. Putting some pallets in water that's 2' deep or shallower sure wouldn't hurt anything, and if you do have FHM, it sure will help them out.

Kyle welcome to PB. A pond that size with average productivity will have about 75 to 125 lbs of top end predators (LMB and big Catfish in your case). Of those only a small # will be large LMB. My guess is about 4 or 5 LMB 4 lbs + (about 20 LBS).

Take a look at this link from the archive on size structure.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492

Well thanks for all the great info!!!

esshup when you say 20% of the surface are is cover. What do you mean by that. So if the lake is 1.5 acres there should be that 20% of the entire lake should have cover in it? Am I understanding that right??

Those links were very helpful ewest. Thanks!

Well after reading through all of that I actually think my pond is in very good condition. between me and the other guys that fish there I see 20-30 4-5lbs get pulled out in just a 6 month span of fishing. Im sure that the same fish is being caught more than once tho. So i guess that the pond is not stunted which seems to be good sense all the people that fish the pond are C&R(Catch and release) guys. From what ive read that C&R is bad for ponds. Im new to this like I said but ill stick to the C&R for now.

Well now that im pretty sure the fish are not stunted, I would like to put some weight on my fish. We will catch 20-22" bass that are .5 lb. to 1 lb. under the standard/heathy weight. I know that a 20" LMB can eat a decent size BG.

So why would the LMB be so skinny?

And usually we catch the bigger fish from june throught september. So it not because they just came off spawn.

Would adding a decent mount of structure possibly cure my skinny bass?

Thanks for all the responses!!!

The red dots are trees that are either completely submerged or only the top 6" of them are sticking out. They are all decent size hard wood limbs.

Hope this helps

Here is another picture of the lake with Distances. Im not really sure how big the lake is but im guessing 1.5acres. Maybe with these measurements someone can tell me how big the lake actually is. If I need to get more measurements I can. Google Earth has some sweet tools!!!! If only it could make a depth map of my pond

I wish Google Earth earth would update their maps.The one of my place is nearly 3 years old. I redug and deepend my pond over the past 2 years and Google still shows my old pond

Nice pond.

Neb:

I think your pond is closer to being between 2.5 and 3 acres. 1 ac - 43,560 sq/ft. If you have the time, have a boat with depth finder and a GPS, you can do your own depth survey, or there is a company that will do it for you. They were written up in PB Magazine a year or so ago.

It's hard to tell exactly what's going on without a seine or electrofishing survey, but from where I sit it looks like the pond is starting to become overcrowded with LMB. They are getting thin because there isn't enough food to go around. If you caught 25-30 LMB that seem to be underweight by .5 to 1 pound, just to get them back up to weight would take 200 to 300 pounds of food for them, not to mention any other LMB in the pond. That's a LOT of forage fish! For instance, if you were to add enough BG for them, that would figure out to be 2,000 to 3,000 BG @ 4"-6" that you would have to stock JUST for them to eat to get back to 100% WR. You are talking about some serious $$ just to be turned into fish food, not to mention how much more forage would be needed to sustain the other LMB in the pond.

If it were my pond, I would look into having a fish survey (electroshock) done, then depending on what that data showed, probably starting a slot limit and removing LMB from the pond before they eat themselves out of house and home.

If you are not sure how many times you are catching a certain fish, you could either start a notebook, writing down certain characteristics of the fish, or get a numbered tagging kit from Greg Grimes and tag the fish.

Are you seeing many BG in the 4"-6" size, or are the BG usually larger than that (8" and larger)?

My rough guess is 2.7 acres. So double the numbers/lbs in my prior post.

I agree with esshup on the stocking and condition. My guess is you need to harvest some small LMB. Think about it this way - for LMB/BG ponds if you see skinny LMB in one length size then the BG 1/3 to 1/4 that length will be in short supply. If a 20 inch LMB is having to chase and eat 3 inch BG then it will be running an energetic deficiency (using more energy than it is taking in = losing weight). If you see few 3-4 inch BG then you should see skinny 10-13 inch LMB so start taking out that size LMB. Here is an excellent go by on what you should look for from Doc Anderson (he knows as he literally wrote the FS book on this).

Dick Anderson
Member # 3017

Rate Member posted February 13, 2007 12:58 PM
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Keep taking <12 in bass until the number 8-12 equals number 12-15. Ideal pond structure is 40% 8-12, 40% 12-15 and 20% 15+

Thanks guys! I guess I was a whole acre off. That helps that I now know that the pond can support more Lbs of fish in it.

I will try and start on taking fish out ASAP. What is the max size I should take out and what is the min size I should take out???

Most of the BG that I am seeing are 6-7" BG's, the smaller ones stick to the little bit of cover hard. But there are not really that many 3-5", Also I have never seen a BG that is larger than 8" in the pond. And I have fished 4 or 5 times with my ultra light pole just to see if I could catch any decent size BG. They were all nearly the same weight and length and I caught maybe 50-60 in those few times after them.

About the tagging, I may try that this year.

One more questions. In 2008 the pond had 70% of the water covered in Curly Leaf Pondweed. It was very fun to go frogin' on but did get annoying but it has never come back and ive never seen it except in 2008. What is that about. Did somehow it get into the lake and something then killed it off so it couldnt come back?

Thanks for all of your help! I am really starting understand what kind of condition the pond is in and what kind of work it needs.

One more, Is there any pictures of the pond besides the overhead picture that would help? (like [pictures of the shore, etc..)

Pics are good. I would suggest you catch some LMB and BG and post pics of them. Pics along with length and weight would help a lot.

Also suggest 1 or 2 deep water pvc structures. I add a hardwood branch and or a cedar branch to pvc structures. I also rough them up with a small grinder so plankton etc can grow on them easier.

Went to the pond today and the water temp was 58-60 degrees on the surface.

Ill try and get some pictures up of the pond this weekend. Not sure how im going to get the underwater structure pictures tho sense I dont have an underwater camera. Sorry

Kyle

Here are some pictures of the pond. I also did some brush work on the dam this weekend as well.

Before

After


And here are a few others of the pond from different angles











One of many schools of BG and small LMB swimming the shallows


He's out gettin some sun

Neb:

The pond looks great! I'd take out all the trees on the dam, providing they have a 4" or less trunk dia. Less problems down the road.

Neb B -- that's a gorgeous pond. Thanks for the pics!!

Beautiful pond Neb.

Beautiful pond Neb

Went out today for 30min and caught some bluegill. I got a bit of data on them and was just wondering if anyone could give me some feed back on the data.

1) 2oz. 6in
2) 4oz. 7in
3) 3.5oz. 6.5"
4) 3.5oz. 6.5"
5) 3.7oz. 7"

All of these fish were caught on a rapala Countdown (CD-01)

Forgot the camera or could of got pictures.

Kyle

Check out Google Planimeter for a pretty decent idea of how much surface acreage your pond contains. Great looking place and I particularly liked that pic of the swimming in the shallows!