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Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
skinnybass #205299 02/22/10 05:22 PM
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6) Advertising...I totally agree. This site is "mined" by several folks, several of which don't advertise...some do.

Bob, shouldn't there be terms on here that people cannot be contacted by a third party for commercial purposes? As example, I may initiate contact with someone and enlist their services, but they could not solicit me. To use this site for their own commercial gain and not be an advertiser is unethical IMO. Perhaps this should be addressed in terms during registration.

7) I also have an idealistic side. I truly believe it is our mission to spread the word to teach people how to be better stewards of our land and water resources.

This shows in every issue of the magazine that I have read. As the forum grows the magazine grows. I have to think that your business and the business of advertisers will grow, too. At some point the laws of exponential growth will kick in.

How do you grow subscriptions?


Have advertisers include a copy of the magazine or a coupon for a year's subscription when they sell an aeration system. Have them throw a subscription card into every box they ship. Staple a card to every bag of fish feed, glue a card to every jug of water treatment, and paint your logo on Otto's machines, think outside the pond. Some may do it for free, some may ask for a trade or in kind agreement.

Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Victor #205306 02/22/10 06:22 PM
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Pondboss is great but it is not Google. When you are one of the champions, be creative. Until then, imitate. I learned this in sports, and business. Do you pay to search via Google or do you see advertisements? We are a small group. Know what you don't know, and copy what others do better.

Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
RAH #205309 02/22/10 06:52 PM
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One thing you could put on a potential premium section of the website would be electronic versions of all the old PB magazines. You could leave off the last few years to keep people from dropping their current subscriptions and only relying on e-versions. I would pay more to have access to the entire library of old issues and I think others would also. I know you can order back issues individually now but much of that money goes to shipping and handling.

Edit: After reading thread again realized Cody already had mentioned this in an earlier post. However I was thinking one fee would get you the whole back issue library.

Last edited by DJT; 02/22/10 11:56 PM.

Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Ryan Freeze #205314 02/22/10 07:09 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Ryan Freeze
To further answer the above question: My labs are starting to shed. Anyone know how to keep a dog from shedding.


#10 blade on a set of Oster clippers. (at least the hair that falls out is MUCH shorter!)


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
DJT #205318 02/22/10 07:24 PM
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If I use the donate tab would it be possible to register that event & send a reminder e-mail to donate at some point in time in the future?

Reguarding the hijacking. It's difficult for me to articulate, but here goes.
I don't want to see the cutting up & jokeing around to stop. I think it's good for the forum, & can be extreemly entertaining.
There have been times however when I was intrested in a topic of discussion when the hijack completely redirected & ended the discussion, or I got frustrated trying to pick out the few serious posts between the many off topic ones. I usually just stop clicking on that thread.
It's not an offensive thing as it is frustrating. Maybe it's just old age.


Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner


If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Ryan Freeze #205319 02/22/10 07:44 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Ryan Freeze
To further answer the above question: My labs are starting to shed. Anyone know how to keep a dog from shedding.

Take away their credit card?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Theo Gallus #205322 02/22/10 08:51 PM
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I'm late to this party, my simple opinion.
1. Leave the forum alone, if it ain't broke don't fix it, posting photo's is not hard just takes a little effort.
2. Let's help spread the word about PB magazine with small brochures or business cards thus increasing circulation.
3. That's all I have to say.



Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
adirondack pond #205330 02/22/10 09:47 PM
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simple and organized and let us forum family members help out for sure.

Dont recommend using google banners for ppc advertising on this site for many reasons, also could potentially revamp the resource center for better exposure to the paid advertisers, and definitely target the fish hatcheries and fish farms for this also!!! Fish Farms are way behind the times and are very hard for pond owners to find. The fish farms who actually take time off from raising and harvesting fish may not be too good or reputable, but they know how to market. It took me YEARS to find all of my 'local' fish farms. What I am getting at is the fish farms arent going to find you, you need to find them and I bet if you hit them up for a few bucks (during fish stocking season) they would sign up in a heartbeat.

Pond Boss Forum, Pond Boss Website, Pond Boss Magazine should all be incorporated together a bit more. When dealing with regular people, you need to make everything super obvious and super easy to see and click and read and comprehend. Your grandma should be able to easily find the important information for the forum, website, and magazine no matter what portion they are currently looking at, without asking any questions.

I love the idea of adding one or two categories for brettski, but dont add very many. I only have time to read the questions/observations and the pond boss family stuff to begin with.

When you get finished reading this, go back and read jeffhasapond's post. He is a genius, its just the rest of the world doesnt know it yet.

Last edited by n8ly; 02/22/10 09:51 PM.

Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
adirondack pond #205339 02/22/10 10:59 PM
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In no particular order:

1) I prefer a hard copy of the magazine. I still get hard copies of Grainger, McMaster Carr, Newark, Allied Electronics, etc. even though it's on the web. Sure, I'm killing more trees but it keeps tree farmers fed.

2) Increase search engine hits. Let's make sure this site is the hub for the pond world and everyone finds it.

3) Keep the forum free for many of the reasons mentioned. However, I don't think it is unfair to allow one to become a member, post and ask questions unless they are a PB subscriber. Given the breadth of knowledge and invaluable advice that is on this forum, I would think that anyone with integrity would be happy to splll $35 for a subscription/forum membership. If they aren't at least willing to do that, then do we really want them? Heck, most state agencies have free .pdf files on a variety of pond topics. Let a non-payer go there and/or browse the PB forum for free....but to be able to ask as many questions as you want on the forum and get a magazine subscription for $35 is the deal of the century. Lurkers can still lurk and learn but a magazine subscription should have it's privileges. In summary- the forum is free for everyone in the world to read and learn but you only become a member with the ability to post if you subscribe to the magazine.

4) I would be willing to pay EXTRA (above my magazine subscription fee) for access to a searchable database of all of the PB Mag articles. This is a huge set of information that has a lot of value. Very few would probably subscribe to this- but I can see the very serious pondmeister and other industry professionals paying the piper. As a member of the American Fisheries Society, I have full access to all 4 of their scientific journals on-line and it's a great tool for me. With some marketting, I bet you can get a lot of professional biologists in both the private and public sectors to join.

5) I don't like seeing other professionals pimping their services/products within the text of the forum either (I think you called it mining). This is just my opinion, but I think it is poor etiquette. I'm not saying this because I am upset because I'm not making a sell. I'm not on here to make a sell nor have I ever tried. I just think the business side should be left under the advertising section. The content of the forum itself should be about dissemination of topical knowldege (more on this later), not trying to sell a gadget. Let the consumer browse the advertising section and let the vendor advertise. For example, how many times has the topic of aeration been covered? Let each advertiser write a one page review of why their's is the best, put it in a .pdf format under an aeration tab and let the consumer decide by calling them directly, finding their local dealer, and heck, maybe put a product review section as a stand alone link & resource? As this site evolves, I like the idea of having a searchable products page and a geographic pond consultant page. The possibilities about the appproach to take are endless. I think this will increase your revenue.

6) Lot's of hi-jacking occurs as well as non pond related topics. What to do? Well, I have mixed feelings. The hi-jacking does tend to give the site character. I've had lots of laughs along the way. Recently, we learned about the well-being of Nate's little baby and learned that Deaner passed away. These things are important to know. I also like hearing about Brettski's projects and JHAP's misadventures. It's part of what keeps me coming back. My only gripe is that it's tough to wade through some of the hi-jacking when I'm searching or trying to follow an informative thread. But I can live with it. This is another reason why I would like to see a searchable database on the articles with access to .pdf files of each article/individual mag. For those not interested in the non-pond related stuff on the forum, then they can pay a little extra and go straight for the article database.

7) I think it's time for a facelift, so Bob I thank you for soliciting our opinions and keeping us involved. I think with the right approach, you can be profitable/more profitable with this site. You should be. You deserve it. Your magazine is one of a kind. I tell all of my customers about it and I know some have subscribed. A friend of mine made the comment that it was stupid for me to have a customer subscribe because it would push my services out of the equation. I think the opposite is true. They (my clients) see ideas and we discuss them as a team. If anything, it increases their interest and drives more business to me. The magazine is great for the entire industry and we all benefit as it grows.

8) From someone who makes their living in this industry, please allow me to throw this out there: have you ever thought about pulling all of us industry professionals together as part of some organization or stand alone forum? This could have a lot of merit and we can learn a great deal from one another. I'm just thinking out loud but as you develop a new approach to the mag and forum, I think somehow rallying the professionals in the industry could also prove useful.



-----------------
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" Albert Einstein
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
jeffhasapond #205350 02/23/10 12:24 AM
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A lot of good reading in this thread, so much so that I don’t know where to begin. I’ll try the beginning and go from there.

Sunil and Eric both made excellent points in this discussion. Eric and his “ease of entry” and Sunil’s comment about the homepage. I was directed to the homepage on three separate occasions before I finally found the forum itself. From the homepage, I got the initial impression that it was all about merchandise and, like any consumer, I was not prepared to make a purchase without knowing the product and was not ready to go through the “work” of learning about the product. Turns out the product was free.

And that brings me to the consistent theme that it appears Bob has addressed. I do believe a free forum is necessary to the short and long term success of this product and service. So I am very happy to see it will not be interfered with because it appears as if the initial goal of obtaining an audience and beginning to charge for services were two conflicting purposes.

I can only imagine if this site was a “pay to play”. I would not have signed on either. That’s pretty scary to think about because I would not have discovered what has become my favorite forum on the web. I am a member of a number of message boards ranging in a variety of topics and this one boasts BY FAR the most knowledgeable and friendliest members of any I have come across. First of all, the specific knowledge you obtain is tremendous. But we all know that. Not into my 20th post on this site (estimate) did I have a fellow member PMing me introducing himself and wanting to be a part of my project. I have never, and will not hold my breath to ever experience again, seen that kind of passion towards this obsession we kids in grown up shoes call ‘pondmeistering’. I only hope to extend that kind of welcome to others as I further my knowledge of the subject.

I’ll echo many of the sentiments throughout this thread in that, I know what this service means to me. I know even before I have water in my hole in the ground, the money I have already saved. Knowing this, I will subscribe to Pond Boss, in all capacities, regardless of what Mr. Lusk and Mr. Otto choose to do. However, taking into account the previous two paragraphs, I am grateful the free aspect will remain available to future members so they can have the access I have appreciated.

I suppose by now I have answered Bob’s question ‘A’. \:D

Shortly after I joined, I had emailed Bob regarding the not-so-user-friendly search function. So I am very happy to be seeing that addressed and so many other members sharing my opinions on this as well. A search function will always be more difficult for new or infrequent members, but there are certainly better options out there and I am excited to see what they come up with.

I suppose, since my handle was mentioned, I can comment on the photo posting suggestions. In previous threads, I was just trying to help quickly with a simple solution. If I had a picture, I knew how to post it and was willing to help out a fellow forum member by doing that for them. I did not realize how frustrating it was for them or that they had many many more pictures they wished to have posted onto the forum. If I'd known this I would have shown them how to do it. It really is easy, just takes a little practice. Since it was my mistake before in not 'teaching a man to fish to feed him for a lifetime' I will do so now… and try not to be such an enabler in the future. \:D

Go to an image upload webpage, like Photobucket (photobucket.com). Create an account (really easy). Open an album and go to this page...



Click 'Choose Files' to find a picture loaded on your computer and upload it. It will upload automatically. Once it's done, you'll have the option to name it, tag it, whatever. Do that if you want (I never do) and go back your album. You will see the picture there, a thumbnail. This is what it will look like...



See where my cursor is? You hover over that one that starts with IMG, click it so it's highlighted. Copy it (CTRL+C). Then go to your post and paste it (CTRL+V). And there it should be... That's all I ever do... Hope it helps. And actually this is an older tutorial I did on another message board. Photobucket is even more user friendly after a more recent upgrade to the process. But in any case, I appreciated being of service PondFrog and encourage you to familiarize yourself with Photobucket. I think we all would benefit from pictures you could share with us.

 Originally Posted By: MikeyBoy
Would it be possible to sell ad space on the site? Currently I see no ad's and generally advertisers will pay for that space. This site probably gets enough traffic to keep some people interested in having ad space on it.


I think MikeyBoy brings up an awesome point, and one further elaborated upon, in this thread. Personally, I would not have found out about vendors such as Stubby Steve’s, Vertex, etc. were it not for Pond Boss. But it could be more, I’m sure. And these vendors appear to be just as generous as their customers. I have received two boxes full of Stubby Steve’s samples from Stacy and hope to have some valuable testimonials from either myself or friends soon. ;\) I have handed them out to friends and strangers alike. And with Gayle hooking us up with business cards to spread the Pond Boss name, 1 will become 2, 2 will become 4, 4 will become 16, and that’s about where my mathematically challenged mind will stop and just assume you get the idea. ;\)

 Originally Posted By: rcn11thacr
Mr.Lusk, New folks like me do have a learning curve when we get on here. One good recomendation would be to have a section dedicated to fish suppliers. In other words if I live here and want to buy x fish i can click here to find the closest supplier to me. Every supplier can add their information for us to read and you can charge them x amount for the add. In return the consumer gets what they want, can ask any questions and expect to get great answers and follow up support all in one place.


 Originally Posted By: esshup
I like the idea of the "ask an expert", for a fee, but there is a LOT of great information on here for free.


Relating MikeyBoy’s, essup’s and RC’s ideas, I love this. I’d also go so far as to offer a Q & A for vendors to access by subscription to free potential customers. Imagine the tool that would be for consumers and the potential for gaining new customers for our valued vendors. Great ideas.

Regarding having to choose between a hard copy magazine versus an e-magazine is like saying I have to choose which kid I like more. Both have their places. I love the hard copy. Gives me something to hold and I will always appreciate that and continue to subscribe. But I think the idea of an “e-zine” is something to build on. Maybe even give “e-ziners” a discount, since it’ll save Pond Boss publishing costs. And encourage e-zine subscriptions by promoting their promptness. No waiting for the mailwoman fishing big LMB through the ice.

 Originally Posted By: skinnybass
 Originally Posted By: Ric Swaim
Def. fix search engine.

that's the key, as far as i see it. I don't know if this is in reference to the internal search, but the way I take it is to improve the visibility of the site on google, yahoo and ask geeves. as was stated in another thread, lead enough horses to water and some of them are sure to be thirsty. A disorganized, buckshot approach, maybe, but always a successful one.


Awesome. Obviously, there are going to always be a ton of people out there using search engines and if Pond Boss can get their name on that list, and hopefully near the top, that would mean more exposure.

 Originally Posted By: skinnybass
[
 Quote:
Or, a "gold" membership, where you can have access to all the website, along with a "members only" forum where you get specific advice to specific problems from the top pros in the industry? This membership also includes a subscription to the magazine.


I like this idea. I know a few forum owners who profit off of this. They don't get everyone to pay, but they do get a few. Adding it as a perk to subscribe to the magazine would be an outstanding idea.


I liked this idea when I read this too and glad it’s actually proved profitable. I think adding perks might be a direction to entertain when going further with this. Something like this or what Sports Illustrated does and give small gifts to subscribers. Little things like that might really get those new subscribers off that fence and in the yard. And was it Eric who suggested a lifetime membership, one time fee? I like that too. Makes it more “exclusive”. ;\)

 Originally Posted By: skinnybass
As I am sure that i've annoyed at least half of the usual suspects at this point, you should all know that isn't true. I'm most likely here to stay ;\)


You definitely stick around skinny B. You have contributed to this site from the first post.

 Originally Posted By: skinnybass
what about a geographically based section of the site? just one page, basically a goolge map where subscribers can advertise their pond management businesses? that would bring more pond managers and business owners to the site, and through them, potentially their clients too. A small charge to advertise would likely lessen the amount of you consultants who want to ad, especially in the beginning while conversions are low. But it is a good idea.


 Originally Posted By: esshup
I like the idea about geographically searchable suppliers. I still don't have a good answer for anybody that asks me who to use to dig a pond in this area.


Regional suppliers? That would be HUGE. Great idea and definitely one I can see utilized by all kinds of pondmeisters. Detailed categories and searches will easily encourage extensive navigation by this forum’s members.

 Originally Posted By: esshup
But, I'm assuming that a lot of the stuff that's being tossed around here would put a resource drain on PB, maybe so much that a person would have to work on the site full time for a while to get it dialed in, which would cost $$.


 Originally Posted By: RC51
Wow! I have to agree with esshup! If even part of all of what we are talking about gets done it's going to take a lot of time and energy from someone??? Sounds like the PB's profit will be going to someone they will have to hire to make all these changes and keep up this site. It's easy to talk about all of this but implamenting it is a WHOLE other can of worms!!!


Yeah, I have to think this will take a pretty substantial commitment. After reading this thread and gathering all of these incredible ideas and wonderful suggestions, I think it would be an advantageous endeavor. This person or group of people could drastically change the landscape of pond management. Help all of us gain access to even more information, more networking, more customers.

 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Welcoming new members and providing some comic relief is all I have to offer to this forum. I humbly apologize to anyone that I have offended via a thread hijack.


JHAP, your posts have had me LOLing more than anyone else’s on any other forum. And I rarely LOL. You pull back on your comic relief and I will die a little bit inside.

I think in conclusion, I’ll echo a great many ideas. First of all, to encourage new members, and keep older ones, keeping it simple is the best way to go. Offer the free services as you always have, but certain encourage, and offer easy access, to those areas that Pond Boss can find themselves a profit.

I like the donation button idea too. I think that should be on the free forum we all enjoy so that any of us can utilize it. Might even consider multiple options to donate. Like if you like a suggestion or advice, have the easy clickable option to drop a couple dimes in the plate to show your appreciation.

While I think keeping the forum free is a great idea, I think making some archives, past articles, podcasts (I’m a HUGE podcaster), videos, instrumentals, etc. accessible only by payment or advanced membership is a spectacular idea. There’s the great information we get for free, but additional information at a nominal fee would be great for everyone.

I like the idea of “gold membership” or the idea of advanced membership options. Let the consumer decide what they get and make sure the quality of the product is worth their investment.

I also liked the ideas about rewarding subscribers. As I mentioned, small gifts to subscribers, but also further access as well as additional incentives like detailed user profiles. Being able to post your profile with specifics about your pond, who you are, etc. Again, a little more exclusive option to allow your customers further integrate themselves into the Pond Boss family.

So that’s my long winded list of thoughts, opinions, and general rambling. I think Bob and Mike are certainly thinking in the right direction and I absolutely love that you have decided to ask us, the consumers of your product, for their suggestions. That tells us a lot about you and I hope our responses here have told you a lot about us.

Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Omaha #205351 02/23/10 03:00 AM
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I like the emag Idea, print copies cost to much to send to me. With emag I would not ask for a print copy.

I think the free access to the forum should be read only. I also think full access should be for all subscribers, either print or emag. If you have the mag and the forum there is almost nothing else you need, so I am not sure what multi level membership would be for.

I find pictures no problem, but the search is a serious negative. Hijacking is part of forum life. Curtailing it might make the site look unfriendly, in my opinion. I just had one of those brilliant thoughts, if there was a box on each message that indicated that this post is not for archival purposes, then disappeared after non activity of the thread or in so many days? Well not maybe so brilliant.

This forum is one of the most pleasant I have ever been involved with, due to the personality of Bob, I suspect.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
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Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Rad #205352 02/23/10 04:43 AM
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There is no lack of participation on this thread. I took the time to read everything posted thus far. I do not own a pond, so I don't subscribe to the magazine, although it was my doing that Dwight first got started with a subscription for a Christmas present and the rest is history for him. I do love to fish ponds, so my interest in this forum is great. The donation idea is a good one, but I would not restrict the use of this forum to posters that don't buy the magazine. I think if you had a donations tab, you would get more money for your hard work. Thanks.


Good morning Dave, I've checked the ships systems, and everything appears to be running normally.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
the stick #205358 02/23/10 08:44 AM
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The non-search friendly problem, and many others, can be taken care of by using different forum software. There are many good, free forum applications that are far more feature rich and flexible than UBB Threads. Some of the forum software includes polling capability. Free forum software is supported by online communities not unlike the Pond Boss forum, and support is excellent.

Last edited by bobad; 02/23/10 09:03 AM.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
bobad #205397 02/23/10 03:10 PM
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A huge "THANK YOU" to each and everyone of you! I wanted input and have heard you, loud and clear.
This gives me some great direction. We're in the planning phase and I'll let you know what's next! Exciting times are coming. Much needed improvement of this site.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Bob Lusk #205408 02/23/10 04:11 PM
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Bob,

I am going to contact you through since you are interested in improving the site.

I have experienced great success in search engine optimization.


I have quite a few suggestions (Advice is free of charge. I actually want to help this community grow, rather than siphon money from pond boss' pockets like an overwhelming majority of professional SEO's).

If you are looking for more traffic, I can help you make it happen. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.


Dr. Flores D.V.M.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Gflo #205411 02/23/10 04:15 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Gflo
(Advice is free of charge. I actually want to help this community grow, rather than siphon money from pond boss' pockets like an overwhelming majority of professional SEO's)


ouch. There are those of us who aren't evil, you know....


(kidding of course ... ;))
Check your PM's, Gflo.

Last edited by skinnybass; 02/23/10 04:17 PM. Reason: cuz we all are, really, evil.

Trying to help with 7.5 Acres in the Chain of Lakes Illinois
- -
The fish would stay out of trouble if it could just keep its fool mouth shut.
Turns out there is a lot I should be learning from the fish.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
skinnybass #205416 02/23/10 04:47 PM
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I like emag but think both should be available. This is personal preference and I am sure many will want hardcopy. I would not want the hardcopy if the old emags were reachable and searchable. I believe, as others, that at first I would not have paid, but now after benefitting from PB forum, I would. So you will have me if you charge Bob, and if you don’t, I will make donations. It will be nice to have search and picture posting facilitated.

I have not been able to read all the responses to this tread, so forgive me if it is repetitive, but the optimization of search engine words could probably be improved, and there are services that provide this. I know they cost and would hope you can get one that does the service efficiently and cost effectively with good return. I am sure there are members here who know more about that than me. Anyway if more people find PB site, then ultimately more will subscribe to the mag.

By the way why someone would not subscribe to the magazine after having experienced all there is here in the forum is not within my understanding.

Fish on all PB'ers


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Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
skinnybass #205419 02/23/10 04:53 PM
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My comments are relative to search engine optimization (SEO). I don't know gflo, so this is not a critique of him in any way. I also don't know much about SEO either, except to know that it works.

The following is merely an example, but I think illustrates how it can work. As background, I own a wholesale distributorship of electronic items. 75 % of my sales are to people who sell through the Internet. The other 25% are retail shops of many varieties. When I started the business in 2001 one of my first customers, and the biggest for the first year or so, was a web site that sold around $25,000 of our products per year. The owner of that business was pretty agressive, so I thought, and did a good job of representing our product. Then that owner sold the business to a young couple. The husband worked full time and only spent a few hours a week at the new business and the wife worked on it in between raising two kids, PTA, etc. After a year or two of $25,000 plus or minus of annual sales they hired a SEO firm who worked with them to get their word, and our product out there. What they did I don't know. What I do know is that it worked. That husband and wife couple's sales of our product last year exceeded $300,000. Therefore I know it works, at least for retail, and I bet it would work in "selling" Pond Boss to many more people.

I know this couple spent a few thousand $$$ getting everything set up, but they are being paid back daily.

Bing


"I love living. I have some problems with my life, but living is the best thing they've come up with so far." � Neil Simon,
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Bing #205420 02/23/10 05:02 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Bing
My comments are relative to search engine optimization (SEO). I don't know gflo, so this is not a critique of him in any way. I also don't know much about SEO either, except to know that it works.

No, Gflo should be listened to carefully, hence my joke about most of us actually being evil.
There are a lot of SEO's that are complete scam artists. very much so.
Many people get out there saying there is some magic potion or a "make it happen" button that will solve all of their problems, and sometimes the client will see a lot of success really really quickly. But in the cases Gflo is talking about, that success usually turns sour.

The people that Gflo and I are referring to are what we call "black hats" in the SEO world, and usually signing up with them leads to tragedy for a business. I Have a client now that hired a black hat, and he is just now (2 years later) not banned by google. Completely banned, like, not allowed to appear at all.
I say often, very often, that rule #2 in SEO is "content is king". Nobody ever asks me what rule #1 is. But in all honesty it is very simple:
Don't piss google off.
life without google on the internet is very difficult and not profitable. He (which means I) basically had to beg them to let him back in. And he still doesn't index for a lot of the terms he should, products that his factory makes that other retailers sell, he's around #50, while they are @ #1. it's sad, this is the punishment google doles out.

So when Gflo says look for someone who has a genuine want to help, he means it, and he is right. I completely agree, honestly. He is talking about all the schmucks out there that give me a bad name.

This SEO that the couple in your example hired is what we call a "white hat" or sometimes "gray" (depending on their tactics and the popular lingo of the day). Guys like that are good.

I, and I assume Gflo, only approve of "white". There is no magic button, no potion, no incantation that will make the google gods pay attention.

Last edited by skinnybass; 02/23/10 05:10 PM. Reason: cuz i drank too much coffee and lost the ability to type.

Trying to help with 7.5 Acres in the Chain of Lakes Illinois
- -
The fish would stay out of trouble if it could just keep its fool mouth shut.
Turns out there is a lot I should be learning from the fish.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
skinnybass #205425 02/23/10 05:14 PM
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oh....also....PB is looking for cheap (I assume). White hats know they are good, and they are expensive. Some of you may remember in a previous topic how i suggested an SEO, but wouldn't want to subject bob et al to my ridiculous rates.

A cheap SEO is usually either a black hat or just a nice guy (like gflo).

That makes me a jerk in most cases, i guess. ;\)


Trying to help with 7.5 Acres in the Chain of Lakes Illinois
- -
The fish would stay out of trouble if it could just keep its fool mouth shut.
Turns out there is a lot I should be learning from the fish.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
skinnybass #205433 02/23/10 05:45 PM
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Theo, you seem to be loosing bandwidth!



Have you been talking to JHAP!, or, was that a thought on your own part! Notice the green!

Last edited by JKB; 02/23/10 05:51 PM.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
JKB #205456 02/23/10 08:29 PM
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 Originally Posted By: JKB
Theo, you seem to be loosing bandwidth!

Jiminy jillickers!


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
Theo Gallus #205457 02/23/10 08:57 PM
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I am just trying a few things, so don't mind me.

Last edited by JKB; 02/23/10 09:21 PM.
Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
JKB #205463 02/23/10 09:36 PM
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Well, I was gonna get cute and repost your lil guy with the hammer and caption it "burger on high teck".

I copied it to my pics. I opened photobucket. I spent 15 minutes fartin' around on the site; never saw the previously easy to find "upload" option. WAY to convoluted of a site for me now.
Any suggestions for another site, or how to upload pics now?
I mean, I never found it!


Re: Changes coming to Pond Boss....
burgermeister #205464 02/23/10 09:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: burgermeister
Well, I was gonna get cute and repost your lil guy with the hammer and caption it "burger on high teck".

I copied it to my pics. I opened photobucket. I spent 15 minutes fartin' around on the site; never saw the previously easy to find "upload" option. WAY to convoluted of a site for me now.
Any suggestions for another site, or how to upload pics now?
I mean, I never found it!


OH! That Guy!

Last edited by JKB; 02/23/10 09:40 PM.
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