Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain bass size and spawning?

I recently stocked a new pond (1/3 acre) with 11 LMB between 8" and 10". Are these bass large enough to have one or two pairs successfully spawn?

Should I add a few more larger bass?

I plan to add bluegills after the bass spawn (if it happens).

Todd, two questions; are the bass the first fish you stocked and what are they eating?
Would appear you are stocking backwards, the bluegills should have gone in first and given a chance to spawn to create forage for the bass.

Todd, That don't work. A well meaning kid threw about 20 6 to 8 inch bass in my neighbors new 1 acre stock tank. They spawned before anyone knew it. We have seined fatheads and bluegills twice from my forage pond. Some of the larger gills survived but no small ones and no fatheads. You might be best trying to catch out all the bass you can and loading up on bluegills and fatheads ASAP.

Bill and Dave are right, you are doing this backwards. the last thing you want are bass with no baitfish. get some bluegill in there quickly. since you already stocked bass you will have to get some adult bluegill. you probably will not be able to get all the bass back out so stocking small bluegill will be a waste.

i have seen several ponds stocked this way. none of them had what I would consider a good balanced fish population.

Recent stocking strategies have been tested in the north and the results differ than what works in the south.

Here is some info. from the pond management guide put out by the Penn State extension service.

When small bass and bgill were stocked together in Alabama...balanced pops. always occurred. In the north, the results were stunted bgill and bass that were unable to spawn successfully.

To acheive bass/bgill balance, bass must be 1 year older than the bgills. This can be accomplished by stocking yearling bass one year ahead of the bgills...or stocking 2 year old bass with yearling bgills.

They also tested (successfully I might add) stocking at least 6 adult bass with 100 adult bluegills in new ponds. This is what I am trying.

If the bass spawn successfully this spring, the fry will not need the bgills to forage on until they are older...right? The initial 11 bass I stocked will not grow well due to the lack of forage, but I am not worried about them. Their first spawn is what I am worried about managing.

The two concerns I have is the bass not spawning this spring, as well as the initial 11 bass cannabilizing their first spawn.

Another question...how old are young bass when they will first start consuming bgill fry and fingerlings?

After reading that post I think I would be out of the pond mgmt business in PA, good luck with your stocking. To answer your question look a few posts back, Shan and I disagreed on when bass start feeding on bluegill fry. Bass will start as soon as ther mouth is large enough this is probably at only 3/4 of an inch. In a lab or in a tank they will be cannibalistic on other bass when less than an inch. However in nature there is a greater abundance of zooplankton and aquatic insects. I feel this is the main diet of baby bass until they reach 3-4 inches in length at which time you will need to have freshly born bluegill or other forage items.

Todd, I don't doubt that the Penn State guys know their stuff but I don't really understand the concept. It seems like putting cows in a pasture and planting grass later.

Bass the size you stocked are too big to eat bugs. They would expend too much energy for the calories they receive. Of course they will eat their own spawn. But if they don't eat enough of them you should be over run by bass. My friends 1 acre pond is thick with small bass. I take a small jig and sometimes catch 25 to 30 in an hour or so. They all go over my back. I have tossed out hundreds in a one year old pond. I don't understand why the bass won't spawn successfully when stocked with bluegills unless the gills get out of control and rob the bass nests.

Sounds like you have an interesting project. Are you going to fish for the initially stocked bass to monitor their growth, health, and relative weight? It would be enlightening to monitor tbe bass caught by clipping fins or tagging and do an analysis of before and after bluegills or other forage is stocked.

Todd, I found the Penn State Pond Management Guide. It does say to stock bass first if they are less than 6 inches; if more than 6 inches then bass and bream are to be stocked together.

They have a number of recommendations you never see such as getting your fish from other bodies of water.

I plan to stock the bluegills in May. I don't see why I need to rush though since the 10" bass can't feed on 5 or 6" 'gills anyway. They would just compete with the young bass anyway. They would not provide forage until they spawn.

I agree with you guys about the initial bass though...I doubt they will grow too well. Their job is to spawn.

I will definitely let you guys know how things turn out.

One thing...if it turns out OK it will have cost me $0.00. One advantage over other stocking programs...lol.

I know a guy who studied under the professor who tested this stocking strategy. Maybe I'll email him.

Todd, great topic thanks for starting it. What I do not understand is the bass have nothing to eat now. Logic says an animal under stress(no food)will conserve energy. How does a female conserve energy? By not reproducing.
If there is a spawn I think all of the offspring will be quickly consumed, like first year fatheads.

Good points Bill. They do concern me. I was worried about the malnourished bass not producing a good spawn. Like you said, many species react to stressors by shutting down or greatly reducing reproduction. I had hoped to get around this problem by stocking the bass at the time I did. On normal years in PA, bass are usually in the act of spawning by the first week in May. I had hoped by stocking them at the end of April, they would be healthy enough to spawn. Only time will tell.

Like I said in an earlier post, I am worried about the bass cannibalizing their young. Stocking adult bluegills would not cure that problem though since they are too big for the bass to eat. Fatheads would work but the guy who owns the pond does not want to spend any money on stocking it. I am doing this as a favor for him.

Stocking bluegills a year ahead of the bass would go against all of the research done at Cornell and Penn State University... so I didn't want to go that route either.

I know of a few ponds here in PA that have a self sustaining bass population. Granted, the bass are not big, but they do survive. They sustain themselves on natural forage (insects, native minnows coming from feeder streams) and probably eat a lot of their own young as well. If the bass I stocked and their first offspring can make it to Summer...they will have all the bluegills they would ever want to eat.

On another note, I have read at a few places where it is not good to stock fish that come from other waters. I can understand this theory if an owner spent a lot of money on fingerlings and adding adult fish could offset the management plan and possibly introduce disease. But, in a new pond, I do not see the harm in stocking adult fish from other ponds if the owner wants to save $$$. The fish I stocked are from a pond with a healthy, balanced bass population with good genetics. I have caught many 6 pounders and even an 8 pounder from that pond. An 8 pounder in PA is like a 13 pounder down south. These fish are also acclimated to the local soil conditions, nutrient loads, climate, and water quality in general (although I believe climate is the most important).

I also would like to say I am glad that there is a resource like Pond Boss to help amateur fisheries managers like myself. I have biology, ichthyology, and aquatic entomology background...but no fisheries management. I respect what everyone has to say because I know there is a lot of experienced and knowledgeable pond owners and managers on here.

Interesting, I would not doubt the research. there are always different ways of doing things. One thing I noticed, Bills post mentions bass under 6 inches can be stocked alone but bass over 6 should be stocked with bluegill. Knowing Bill he would not have posted this unless he found that research.

using documented research to stock ponds is the smart play. I stock ponds based on the research that was conducted in southern ponds. I get great results with the ponds that I stock because I follow the guidelines to the letter.

It appears you have done your homework but you are not following that researched recomendation to the letter. (based on Bill's post)

you stocked bass larger than 6 inches. why did you not put in bluegill at the same time?

The two strategies are:

combining two year old bass (over 6 inches) with yearling bluegills, less than 2 inches long.

OR combining at least 6 10" (adults which can spawn) bass with 100 (adult) bluegills 5" or more

In the second strategy, I assumed the stocking of the adult bass in such a small number meant that their only purpose was to spawn and provide the first year class.

What advantage would stocking 5 or 6" bluegill with 10" bass provide? They are too big for bass to forage on. Should bass forage be 1/3 or less of their length? The 'gills won't spawn until summer so I have to be sure they are in before the spawn. I believe if they were there now, they would only compete with the adult bass an their offspring.

If someone could give me a reason to stock the bgills now, I would gladly consider it.

I have another angle to consider.
Are you worried about having a one pair spawn resulting in nothing but brothers and sisters as the main bass population?
There’s a lot of post about genetic diversity. I don’t know if it’s something to be worried about. I went with genetic diversity just to be on the safe side.

I would think that these bluegill would be large enough to survive predation by the bass and should spawn soon to provide forage for the bass.

Todd, the bgills grow very rapidly as do the bass. I put in an IDNR hatchery produced stock (which were free along with Bgills and CC (Need to meet criteria with pond)) of 1-2" LMB last June and they were 7" by Oct. The bgills will spawn very soon and this will give forage for your initial stock plus the the spawn of new bass. It seemed like the bgills spawned at least twice in my pond last year as I saw several sizes of them. It could have been different fish spawning continously? Anyway, the bass will feed on frogs, bugs, and whatever else they can find but you need forage for all the bass when they are big enough to eat other fish, which if I figure right will be in 1-2 months. I'd get em in now. My $.02.

FH

Todd , JM is correct. The adult BG are used in the second method to provide a forage base for the YOY bass. The bass will {hopefully} spawn. If so they will spawn several weeks before the BG. The spawn occurs this way so the YOY bass will be able to eat the YOY BG as they both go through life. The YOY bass will eat the YOY offspring of the 5 inch BG. This method is , in result not so different than standard methods it is just on a different time frame . It is based on the stocked BG and bass not surviving or in a very limited number. However those few who may survive will be there next year to start the experiment over. It is a very interesting concept. In my opinion this method is uncertain because it assumes the bass will spawn and not consume their YOY and the BG YOY and then starve to death. It may well work if the correct number of both YOY bass and BG survive the first year to spawn next year. You will need enough YOY bass to survive to balance the BG population or you will be in the exact situation the Penn State method says it is trying to avoid. Be sure there is enough cover for both YOY to hide in. It is safe to say that balancing any 1/3 acre bass/BG pond is a challange. To answer the question you had { why hurry on the adult BG ? }--to be sure the adult BG have time to adjust to the move and not through off the timming of the critical BG spawn. The BG spawn soon after the bass. My guess is the adult BG should be in the pond at least 2 weeks prior to their spawn , or about the same time the bass spawn. I think you should asap add the adult BG as recommended. It is a great and low cost experiment. Keep us posted on your results. Good luck-- ewest.

I just noticed this thread started two years ago!

If Todd is still with us, hopefully he can give an update and let us know how it worked out.

:rolleyes:

Actually, I plan on doing some fishing at that pond in the near future. I will let you know how it worked out.

I believe we put in about 17 adult bass and 75 adult BG. I don't remember the date but I had it recorded somewhere. The BG spawned the first year, but I did not see any evidence of a bass spawn.

When I fish it in a few weeks, I will give a report.