Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Pizzo, oUnDOmIn, J&T Ranch, NorthCarolinaboy, nicosia
17341 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,042
Posts530,108
Members17,342
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,551
ewest 20,652
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,790
Who's Online Now
7 members (Bobbss, RStringer, NorthCarolinaboy, Steve_, HenryCountyAL, DrLuke, Scalebuster), 382 guests, and 415 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Another New guy with questions
#200738 01/25/10 09:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
S
Fingerling
OP Offline
Fingerling
S
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
Another new guy here in need of advice, any and all comments welcome. I found this forum last summer and have been steadily reading trying to educate my self so that when I got to the point of asking questions I would be able understand the information that I received. I have been be banging my head against the wall for the last two summers fighting FA. The FA gets so bad during the summer I fully expect a fish kill. During the winter the pond looks good, but the summer all bets are off. Even now when we had a few days weather in the high 60s low 70s and I found some FA. The way I have been combating it is with Cutrine Plus, but I can never get ahead of it. And from the reading that I have been doing I am probably only feeding the monster. So here goes.
The pond is at the bottom of two hills so in the summer it gets hot and doesnt get much wind. What I would like to do is aerate and possibly add some Talapia. I will be building a system myself trying to stay on somewhat of a budget. I am not worried about the mechanical or electrical ascpect of any of the construction I just need to make sure my numbers are correct would like to get some advice from some experts in the field which from what I read there are several hanging around here.
So does anyone have any suggestions on CFMs I would need to look for in a pump, I was reading on another thread that there was already a thread that existed that gave that information but I was unable to find that thread?
Location of aerators (I am thinking that I will probably end up with one set in the center of the pond and one in the neck). Or would a long piece of the perforated tubing running the length of the pond be better? There are several ways to go I know but I would really like to hear some other opinions besides the ones in my head.. Please feel free to weigh in, aeration and Talapia may only be a piece of the puzzle that I need to look at. I am going to try to attach some pictures also.
The specifics about the pond are:

acre of surface water with steep slopes.

10 deep in the center of the pond this includes the neck.

Shallow spot at base of neck 4 deep, but neck is also 10'
deep.

Some vegetation on west side which are a few Cattails.

The pond location is in a creek bed that was dug out for the
pond about 4 years ago.
The creek/ditch only runs when it rains so basically its run
off only.
Neighbor hood on one side of pond approximately 15 houses.

Pasture on other side of pond, shows dirt in picture on one of
the pictures I will try to attach here but is now grass.

In picture with dimensions the pond is 4 low It is an satelite
picture off of bing which was probably taken right after it
was built and hadn't filled with water completely.

Pond has a good fish population. (Bass, Blue gill, Catfish) (Bullfrogs)

Thanks for any comments.

[img][/img]

[img][/img]



[img][/img]



Last edited by Spencer M; 01/25/10 10:37 PM.
Re: Another New guy with questions
Spencer M #200746 01/25/10 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
Spencer welcome aboard. Your pics help alot along with your descriptions and goals. Your two pronged approach with aeration and tilapia are wise.As far as aeration and doing it yourself look into two airstations with your depths. I can suggest a standard Vertex Coactive model for the deeper bowl and a Shallow water model for the neck. A compressor that supplies from 2.5 cfm to 4.2 cfm will be plenty. This can be from a 1/4 hp to a 1/3 hp rotary vane or a wob-l piston type compressor depending on how long your lines will be from the compressor.As far a a manifold and valve setup feel free to look at our Economy Series for ideas on how to build your own.Let us know any other questions you may have.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN #200777 01/25/10 11:23 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
W
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
W
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
Spencer, aeration is always great for a pond, but it won't get rid of FA; I fish a pond about the size of yours that has an aerator running 24/7 and the FA was awful last year on it, as it was the year before. That pond also had tilapia stocked year before last, and they didn't remotely control the FA.

Grass carp will control it, for much less than what you'd spend on tilapia. However, grass carp love pellet food, so if you ever plan on feeding your bluegill to get them really big, or increase their spawning success for more forage for the bass, the grass carp will hog most of the food once they get big. A better option in my opinion, considering how clear your water is, would be to fertilize beginning in late February, or even mid-February. First check your alkalinity; if it's below 20 ppm, you may need to lime first (cheap, just have to find someone in the area that does it, usually not difficult). Once you get a plankton bloom established, the FA can't grow anymore because the bloom prevents the sunlight from penetrating down through the water to the bottom. An additional benefit is that your fish will grow much faster and larger than they are currently due to a better food chain. Once a bloom is present, you'll only have to fertilize about once a month from February or March through October or November, and sometimes less than that, to keep the bloom going; when you can see a bright white object deeper than eighteen inches, it's time to fertilize.

An aerator would still be good, especially if your area is subject to the severe droughts that parts of your state see; an aerator would prevent a fish kill if there were a major drop in overall acreage in conjunction with a heavy plankton bloom. If you aerate and fertilize, you'll have some big fish.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Walt Foreman #200803 01/26/10 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
Talk to Overtons and Rainman and others about the success with grass carp vs tilapia for FA in Texas tanks. I believe you'll find GC consistantly come up short on FA by comparison.The warmer the water the earlier in the season tilapia are present the more success youll have with them. The further north you are and have FA get a foothold before you can stock tilapia the less success you'll have.They can have some affect on Chara as far as algae go but dont believe that is a concern of yours.Consider a properly sized aeration system along with the correct number and size of tilapia to meet your goals.Walt is correct that aeration alone will not solve your problem.Aeration is not meant to eliminate FA as many claim.Planktonic algae and sunlight will be your oxgen producer which will give you highs and lows from day to day and season to season. Proper aeration will lower the highs and raise the lows to help you maintain a more consistant oxygen level.I have seen it at best reduce FA but there is no interaction that aeration promotes that will consistantly cause this..I have also experienced GC bypass FA (lyngbya,Spirogyra,hydrodictyon and even calcified chara) without other vegetation in a pond. Others may have different success with GC.Keep doing your research as youve tapped a great source of experience on this site.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN #200825 01/26/10 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
Hello SpencerM and welcome to Pond Boss, thanks for joining in and posting!


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
jeffhasapond #200964 01/26/10 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
B
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
B
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
I would think that a pasture bordering a pond would provide plenty of fertilizer. Aeration will help in removing excess nutrients and boost aerobic bacteria levels. In a 3/4 acre pond, one air station in the deepest part should suffice. The algae in the picture looks like spirogyra which should be easy to control. How often have you applied Cutrine? What amount and method?

Re: Another New guy with questions
Brian75 #200988 01/26/10 10:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
S
Fingerling
OP Offline
Fingerling
S
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
Thanks for the replies, to answer a few of the questions and to ask a few more here we go.

Ted
I have looked at the systems you referred too and that is indeed what I am thinking about. I went back and corrected my org. post after seeing your reply. The neck is not shallow it may actually be a foot or two deeper than main pond (around 11) just the base of the neck where it connects to the pond is shallow for about 10 wide. What CFM does each of the Vertex aerators need, would you suggest 2 side by side in each of the locations? The compressor will be at the pond.

Walt
The pond is extremely clear minus the algae. I dont have a water test kit yet (will look into it) but I did have a roll of PH paper so I went down to the pond a few minutes ago and dipped it in. A few minutes later I took pictures of the paper (which I am having trouble up loading right now) and it showed a value of real close to 9 in alkalinity. Not sure this is a valid test though??? I did go and do some reading after youre post earlier and everything that I read did indicate that my water is to clear, I can see several feet in the water with no problem. If I fertilize wont I be feeding what I am trying to get rid of? What type of fertilizer are you talking about?

Brian75
I may have not described the land next to me correctly, its pasture/field with no cattle or anything on it. Not sure youd get much fertilization from it.

Thanks Jeff

I am steadily reading and gathering as much information as I can before proceeding thanks everyone and keep the ideas coming please.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Spencer M #201009 01/26/10 11:51 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
W
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
W
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
If your alkalinity and not the pH is 9 (9 would be very high for pH), then that's extremely low for alkalinity and below what's generally considered the minimum threshold for fertilizer to be effective, so you would need to add lime to make the fertilizer work.

I've had the best luck with liquid fertilizer that's a 10-50-0 formulation; formulations similar to this are sold under several different brands; the one I buy is called Tackle Buster and I get it from my local co-op, about $27 per 2.5 gallon jug, and a gallon does an acre. You will need to dilute it, which can be accomplished a few different ways ranging from pouring the liquid into the prop wash of a small outboard (the best method) to spraying it onto the surface with a garden sprayer like one would use for a herbicide application to diluting it 10:1 with pond water in a five-gallon bucket and splashing it onto the surface of the pond.

If you start fertilizing in mid-February or the beginning of March (I start in March but I live in TN, don't know what part of TX you're in), assuming you lime first with a ton of lime per acre, you should get a good plankton bloom by the second (which should come two weeks after the first) or third application of fertilizer. The FA won't be at full strength by then, so before it has a chance to take off you'll be blocking out its lifeline, and it will die. If your soil were naturally fertile, you possibly could fertilize even after the FA got going good, as I've done this more than once and initially for a couple days the FA grew more but as soon as a good bloom occurred the FA died off; but seeing as you haven't fertilized before, you would want to get ahead of the FA by fertilizing early. But if your alkalinity is 9, liming first will be crucial to make the fertilizer work.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Walt Foreman #201010 01/26/10 11:53 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
W
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
W
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
Also, Cutrine is copper sulfate, which has been shown to build up in ponds over time and eventually can be toxic to the fish - so, not the greatest solution long-term (I never use it).

Re: Another New guy with questions
Walt Foreman #201083 01/27/10 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,652
Likes: 66
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,652
Likes: 66
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
Also, Cutrine is copper sulfate, which has been shown to build up in ponds over time and eventually can be toxic to the fish - so, not the greatest solution long-term (I never use it).


Cutrine is not CUSO4 (copper sulfate) it is chelated copper. There is a difference. I dont think the manufacturer would like the comparison.
















Re: Another New guy with questions
ewest #201100 01/27/10 12:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
Let's pretend that I'm a complete idiot Ewest. Can you explain the difference between copper sulfate and chelated copper? Use small words, drawings are welcome also.

Let's see how long it takes someone to swing at that.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
jeffhasapond #201102 01/27/10 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Y
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Y
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
 Originally Posted By: JHAP
Let's pretend that I'm a complete idiot Ewest. Can you explain the difference between copper sulfate and chelated copper? Use small words, drawings are welcome also.


It takes a whole lot more chelated copper to kill green sunfish than it does copper sulfate.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Yolk Sac #201103 01/27/10 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
Wow, two minutes but with a different twist than I expected. I'm impressed.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
jeffhasapond #201104 01/27/10 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Y
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Y
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
New, proprietary app on the Iphone.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Yolk Sac #201105 01/27/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Y
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Y
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
 Originally Posted By: JHAP
...but with a different twist than I expected. I'm impressed

I'm not going to shoot the proberbial fish in a barrel, even if it looks suspiciously like a GSF.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Yolk Sac #201106 01/27/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
Jeez, I'm almost afraid to ask. What is the name of this new proprietary app?


....fastening my seat belt.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
Yolk Sac #201108 01/27/10 01:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
 Originally Posted By: Yolk Sac
I'm not going to shoot the proberbial fish in a barrel, even if it looks suspiciously like a GSF.


Your killing me here. \:D \:D \:D

I literally burst out laughing. Now JWHAP thinks I really, really, enjoy reading Internal Revenue Code.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
jeffhasapond #201114 01/27/10 02:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,077
Likes: 64
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,077
Likes: 64
 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
 Originally Posted By: Yolk Sac
I'm not going to shoot the proberbial fish in a barrel, even if it looks suspiciously like a GSF.


Your killing me here. \:D \:D \:D

I literally burst out laughing. Now JWHAP thinks I really, really, enjoy reading Internal Revenue Code.

Now you're pretending that SHE is the idiot.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Another New guy with questions
Theo Gallus #201124 01/27/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 3
OH SNAP!!!

That's two in one day, that might be a freakin record or something.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Another New guy with questions
jeffhasapond #201158 01/27/10 05:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
S
Fingerling
OP Offline
Fingerling
S
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
Maybe I could use a copper rod to agitate the pond? Didn't know it was such a stirring stick. Ok Guys/Gals I need some help on this pond before I break and decide to empty it and use it as a motorcycle track this summer.
Did anyone have the answer to the question on the aerators, about how many CFM each need? One of the view points above may be the answer to my problems, but does anyone else have any suggestions? How much does a ton of lime cost?
thanks
Spencer

Re: Another New guy with questions
Spencer M #201176 01/27/10 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 969
Spencer M, Each Vertex CoActive Airststion with two discs on each has an operating cfm range from 1 cfm to 2.5 cfm per station.In the neck area since it has some depth just install the Standard 2 disc station. Your pond would have a total of 4 discs in two areas.If your pond was more bowl shaped and deeper we could get by with 1 Airstation.PS If you drain it for a motorcycle track we can use a smaller unit yet \:\)

Re: Another New guy with questions
Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN #201255 01/27/10 09:16 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
W
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
W
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
Lime is very cheap, usually less than $100 per ton if I remember correctly. Call your local co-op and see if they deliver it; oftentimes places that sell it will also apply it.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Walt Foreman #201256 01/27/10 09:18 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
W
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
W
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 743
Make sure you get pelleted (ag) lime and not hydrated lime; the former will not raise your pH above 8.5 (ideal), while the latter can raise it as high as 12 which will kill every fish in the pond.

Re: Another New guy with questions
Walt Foreman #201327 01/28/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 941
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 941
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
Lime is very cheap, usually less than $100 per ton if I remember correctly. Call your local co-op and see if they deliver it; oftentimes places that sell it will also apply it.


Here by me it is $16/ton and that includes the lime, delivery, and spreading. Have 3 tons to the acre done last year on the new pond site. Remeber lime doesn't cost it pays.

This is Ag lime and not pelletize, pelletize is much more but easy to handle

Last edited by lassig; 01/28/10 08:25 AM.

Re: Another New guy with questions
lassig #202039 02/01/10 04:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
B
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
Spencer,

Just reading in on the topic, my suggestion to resolve your issue would be to install an aeration system with two diffuser stations as recommended above, one placed in the at or near the deepest part of the pond, while placing the other in the deepest part of the cove. Algae is a symptom of your problem, so I would suggest focusing on the problem, which is the available nutrients within your pond.
Aeration is likely the solution to much of your frustration, so I suggest not cutting any corners, even it if takes away from other projects you were planing on paying for in 2010. Install a aerator that is over sized for a 3/4 acre pond. I would recommend and equivalent to a Vertex Air 2 or *Air 3*, which ever size your budget will allow. The headache and treatment savings along with the increase in biomass your pond can support will be worth the investment.
My experience with Grass Carp has had little success with algae removal, so I would stick with the Tilapia, but you may find that algae is not an issue once you have sufficient aeration, especially if you promote phytoplankton to utilize the available nutrients. Install the aeration prior to the warm season if possible, otherwise you will likely feed your algae even more and have a frustrating spring. Getting your pond where you want it may take some precision, so if your alkalinity is low, lime, then once aeration is installed treat your algae in the spring to eliminate it and add some phytoplankton to give the plankton a jump start.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
An Aussie, Griffin, JERRY ADRIAN
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Sunil!
by Sunil - 07/25/21 10:51 AM
New Pond owner Help
by Bobbss - 07/25/21 09:17 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by Steve_ - 07/25/21 12:48 AM
FIREISHOT BIRTHDAY
by Dave Davidson1 - 07/24/21 02:47 AM
Shout out to teehjaeh57 Great Guy
by teehjaeh57 - 07/23/21 10:34 PM
Finely ground ag lime addition?
by esshup - 07/23/21 10:33 PM
48 year old pond always leaked
by teehjaeh57 - 07/23/21 10:32 PM
2-4D and EWM?
by esshup - 07/23/21 10:27 PM
Crazy idea - pen raised tiger muskie....
by esshup - 07/23/21 10:06 PM
Brook trout 16-21" now what, Own pond for 1 yr
by esshup - 07/23/21 09:52 PM
Jenson pond mower
by Bill Cody - 07/23/21 09:09 PM
Omaha's a birthday boy
by teehjaeh57 - 07/23/21 07:37 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Catfish ID - Channel or Flathead?
Neighbors Pond with RES
Neighbors Pond with RES
by Shorty, July 17
Fish ID
Fish ID
by airborne3118, July 12
Algae?
Algae?
by OhioJon, July 7
pond
pond
by Stressless, July 7

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4