Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Catfish as a top predator?

I just stumbled onto this site....love it! I have a 2.5-3 acre pond. It is approx. 18 yrs. old, 9 ft deep at it's lowest spot with an average of 4-6 ft. and was stocked with largemouth, channel catfish, bluegill and crappie. It also has a population of what I think are fathead minnows. I purchased this lake 2 yrs ago and the previous owner of 8yr. had never fished in it. I assume that there were some occasional secret fishermen, but the sum of it is that there has been virtually no fishing pressure. In the past 2 yrs. I have fished it as often as possible. I have had much success and in fact, I have caught LMB as large as 28 inches and have caught (and released) many over 20. On any given afternoon, I can catch a stringer of bass ranging from 10 to 24 inches and there are smaller ones present. I am also confident that the channel are raising since I can see sizes from under a pound to over 10 when I occasionally feed. I see numbers in the 50-75 range at dinner time. The bluegill population is large and mostly in the 2-4 in range, but I have caught some as large as 12 inches.
The crappie population is what I am primarily interested in. I kinda get the feeling that many here consider them a nusaunce, but I love them. I know that there are many under 5 in. in my pond. I have caught some nice stringers of 11-13in fish, an a few as large as 17in, though not many. I am looking for any kind of advice on how to improve the crappie catch. I desire quality over quantity.
One question in particular concerns channel. Do they prey on crappie? My desire would be to eliminate them, but I don't want to do so if they are contributing to crappie management.
Would you consider my pond overstocked? I think that is kinda interesting that it has such a balance in all species while not being fished for so many years. I don't want to mess up the balance. Sorry for the long read on the background.

Welcome to the forum... Sounds like you have lucked into a nicely balanced pond. For its size, it's impressive it is producing so many quality fish. You didn't mention any fertilization so it would appear your pond is naturally quite fertile.

Yes, CC(channel cats) do feed on crappie just like they will feed on just about any other fish they can get in their mouths. Particularly the larger cats will be predacious on any fish. I suspect the number of crappie being eaten by your catfish is rather low though. It is the bass in your pond that are eating the vast majority of your crappie.

If you're looking to help your crappie along, I would focus on two things. One, keep every single crappie you catch! You will never catch them all and the ones remaining will have less competition and will grow faster. It is a very rare pond where you can grow quality crappies for an extended period. Perhaps the fact that you have such a well spread out size range of bass is helping to control your crappie population. The second thing I'd focus on is working to keep the bass size structure well spread out. Having mediium and large sized bass in the pond will help the bass control the crappies. In many ponds where the bass max out at 14" or so because of stunting, the crappies are able to grow just large enough that most bass cannot feed on them and then they stunt. Whereas in your pond, with bass pushing 28", crappies are being eaten even at 10" plus.

Take some pictures and share them with us... We love to see pond pictures and the fish caught out of them!

Ozark,

First -- a hearty welcome to Pond Boss. It is a great place to get answers to the types of questions you've posed.

Your pond sounds very similar to mine, except that mine is only about 0.6 - 0.7 acres, and I don't have fatheads. Otherwise, a very similar history, and about the same age. We've owned this pond for a little over five years.

When we bought the place, the pond was overrun with huge catfish that were a serious problem. They were digging caves in the side of my pond. They ate everything in sight. But, the crappie and bluegill were pretty healthy. The bass were so-so.

I don't remember how many we pulled out, but it was somewhere between 15 and 20 like this fellow:


I was really down on the channel cats. But, after attending the first and second Pond Boss conferences, I was convinced that I wanted them back in my pond -- but they had to be controlled. I now annually stock 15 to 25 channel cats as 10-12 inch "put and take." I put in numbers I know we will pull out in a year's time. This was a 10-12 incher after about a year in the pond:


They are certainly a top predator and compete hard with the bass. But, I manage my pond primarily for big bluegill. The catfish are a lot of fun, they provide great meals, and they do a good service. Similarly, I put trout in the pond during the winter for the same purpose. I keep my bass very over populated and hungry. Consequently, they don't get very big.

This is what our bluegill and crappie look like:



The typical bluegill that gets pulled out is between 9-11 inches, with a few close to 12. We've got a healthy spread of Year-of-Young to 12 inches. We keep virtually no large healthy mature male bluegills, and we throw back most females over 10 inches. Every other bluegill comes out.

The typical black crappie is 12-14 inches, with a few 7-8 inchers. None ever go back in. We don't get a lot of them, and we usually only get them in late winter and early spring.

I give credit to the bass, the catfish, and the trout in helping grow large bluegill and crappie.

Your pond may be overstocked, but start a goals and management plan now. Keep good records, and within about two seasons, you should have a trophy pond.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks for the warm welcome and the input. I'll get some pics up.

Great pics. It does sound like our situations are the same. So, would you deem it wise to leave the channels as a consumer of crappie fry, or would harvesting some of them allow room for the expansion of the bass population?

Ozark,

As you've probably noticed, there isn't much dissension between posts here on the site, but there is a lot of insight that can be gained from the many points of view.

Before I would make any suggestions, I think it would be good to gather the wisdom from a number of others who I'm sure will post advice and ideas like what Travis (CJBS) and I posted.

Sometimes we do get a little off course and crazy. But, don't let that bother you. It is just the result of cabin fever this time of year.

Good fishing,
Ken

P.S. Just a little dissension in the ranks -- whatever you do, try not to bring up the subject of green sunfish.

Howdy OP, welcome and thanks for posting.

It sounds like you've got a great pond, and as He Who Has Posted For A Year And Two Days And By Rights Should Be Tagged As Coppernose [otherwise known as Travis] wrote, you're very fortunate to have such a good population of fish in general and crappies specifically.

I'd be afraid to try to "fix" anything, for fear of throwing the whole thing out of balance. I suspect you've enough large predators, between your bass and cats, that many of your midsize crappies are consumed. This is often missing in ponds with crappie.....I'd be very interested in the thoughts of some of our more experienced folks, but it sounds to me like you've already got what a lot of us strive for.

If you have a lot of crappie under 5", and not many larger specimens, especially considering your bluegill are mainly 2-4", the pond is not in balance. Right now it's ideal for big bass, and not ideal for anything else. The catfish will eat some crappie, but I would think they're eating more small bass right now since bass spawn later than crappie and the crappie grow past the size the catfish can eat them earlier in the year than the bass do.

I would think that you'll get bigger crappie if you thin out the catfish and let the bass overpopulate. You won't have as many large bass, but the larger numbers of bass will hammer the YOY crappie as soon as they're hatched. Keeping every crappie you catch will also help.

Another option is to stock a handful of tiger muskie. They get big enough that they would thin out the small crappie and bluegill both, allowing both species to grow significantly larger; they would also eat a good number of small bass, so your bass would average larger than if you rely on overpopulated bass to thin out the crappie and bluegill. Muskie are eating machines, basically, and would serve to keep other species from overpopulating.

I suggest you go through this link and read the threads listed. That will give you a good understanding of how crappie work in ponds.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id=1#import

Many here like crappie but understand just how hard it is to manage them in a pond vs. a big lake (100 acre +).

I would want to understand your pond and goals very well before I hazard a guess as to what you should do to improve or change it. Especially given the results you have stated above.

Great to meet all of you. I am so glad I located this site. The information and input is great. Thanks for your responses.