Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Common Carp & Largemouth Bass

Hello everybody:

My ponds:

My ponds are in NW Indiana. Both are new and approximately 1 acre large and up to 14 feet deep. Both are fed from ground water, which is not unusual for NW Indiana ponds. But they therefore fluctuate in depth – 6 feet this year alone. Both ponds are made mostly of sand with some clay and gravel. Also both ponds will have air diffusers powered by windmills and/or Koenders EL compressors, all supplied by Superior Windmill in Regina, Canada.

My goal with these ponds is the following:

Swimming for the kids
Providing dinner for the family
Making a dent in the mosquito population

Some of you have suggested Common Carp, in earlier posts.



I have eaten Common Carp numerous times in Europe, and I liked it.

As Common Carp is quite prolific, could one have a Common Carp/Largemouth Bass only pond?

I would start the new pond with Fathead Minnows/Golden Shiner/Redear Sunfish in spring 2010.

When and how many Common Carp & Largemouth Bass should I stock?

I do not want to get Common Carp from a local lake as I am scared of importing diseases into my ponds. Where could I get healthy Common Carp?

All competent advice and suggestions are most welcome.
Thank you very much.
Regards,
FRIZ

I would not put carp in a pond with swimming as a primary goal.

They stir up the mud/bottom , get big and take up to much space. Some types can be dangerous when in shallow water (large flying objects) when spooked.

Providing dinner for the family...

Friz:

Here are a few places that is listed as producing common carp. I have absolutely no personal experience with them, nor do I think I know anybody who does. I know Rex (Rainman) hauls into this area, he might have a source. Currently he's away on a hunting trip in Texas but he should be back towards the middle of the week.

A1 Aquatics
Matthew Hogan
6225 South Willms Knob Rd.
Pekin, IN 47165
(812) 967-5092
A1Aquatics@yahoo.com

Aquascape
Jim Croucher
2750 E. 62nd St.
Indianapolis, IN 46220
(317) 722-0905
thepondguys2006@yahoo.com

Fin Farm LLC
Ann Hesterman 20543 Co. Rd.
Ridgeville Corners, OH 43555
(419) 267-3612 finfarm@rtecexpress.net http://www.finfarm.com

Lewis Farms
James Lewis 8084 Whitcomb Rd.
Brookville, IN 47012
(465) 647-1640

Live Fish of Indiana
Howard Spiehler III RR 1 Box 83DD
Bloomfield, IN 47424
(82) 876-3031

Omega 3 Aquaculture LLC
Trent Jones
3411 East Wabash Road
Peru, IN 46970
(765) 327-1016
drtjones@comcast.net

Westfork Fish Farm
Zondra Trivett
2885 E. CR 800 South
Clayton, IN 46118
(317) 539-4423
zondra73@aol.com


I have absolutely no idea on a stocking rate.

I know you are still a year away from stocking any fish other than minnows, and my offer still stands for getting you some for the table when the weather warms up. Live Fish of Indiana lists having (producing) Buffalo. I've had Buffalo and Common Carp and prefer the Buffalo. You'll have to show me how to cook the carp, I've tried and haven't found a recipe that I like.

Thank you.
Regards,
FRIZ

Fritz,

I've had some time to think about your goals and options and here is what I would do. Keep in mind this is my opinion only and I welcome criticism from others on the site. No doubt you're getting more confused with every post though!

For one of the two ponds if you determine the local carp taste as good as the same carp in Europe go for it! That one pond may become more turbid than the other one but so what? Additionally just one good size fast growing carp will feed the family quite well vs. our other so called smaller panfish. As Bill Cody says they have excellent conversion rates from the bottom of the food chain, and catching carp for dinner would be a blast as they are probably one of the hardest fighting fish I know of. They are also excellent smoked! I've fished for them in local lakes with mashed Wheaties cereal mixed with vanilla extract as they are really into scents. And if you pressure them they can be quite a challenge. I believe they are actually smarter than many of our so called gamefish.

I personally wouldn't be concerned with disease with introducing carp if you harvest some large ones out of local waters for planting, if the fish you plant appear healthy with no lesions or reddened areas on their skin. However, to prevent any possible introduction of parasites, dip them with a net into a barrel or tub of pond water at your ponds edge mixed with a 3 percent salt solution (1 1/2 cups of uniodized table salt per 10 gallons of water for maximum time of 5 minutes or until fish rolls over or appears to lose it's balance. Then immediately plant the fish into the pond. External parasites can't handle the salt water and implode on the fish's body surface effectively eliminating them. It's stressful to the fish too but if you keep the dip limited in time as in the above directions they should be fine.

HOWEVER!

I would seriously do some Internet searching as with Google or some other search engine in German or English for the UK for advise on planting carp in small ponds for recreation and food. Ignore the aquaculture stocking rates as they are a whole different ball game. Don't be afraid to email people for advise even if getting fish from them overseas is out of the question as many are happy to respond.

I can't imagine there isn't anything in the German language on that, considering how popular they are in Europe. In this country there is such a mind block against carp you probably won't find anything useful though. BTW one of my probable ancestors was responsible for introducing them into this country.

Make your stocking rates dependent on that information and if you may need to add a predator fish to keep their numbers down probably largemouth bass would be the choice as long as the water does not get too turbid. Being your pond bottom is mostly sand vs. clay or silt I'm not so sure turbidity would be that much of a problem.

As far as the other pond since you have your mind set on smallmouth bass, I would plant fatheads in the spring with added spawning habitat such as pallets due to your lack of weed cover in the new pond. You will probably have to move them farther out into the pond as your water level recedes. In the fall I would plant 100 smallmouth bass fingerlings and 100 juvenile perch 4 to 6 inches.

The mixed sex perch will be necessary to produce forage for the smallmouth bass once smallmouth and yellow perch wipe out the fathead minnnows.

Essentially my biggest pond is now a yellow perch smallmouth pond with the addition of male only bluegills.

If fish growth and productivity is not as high as you want, you might have to consider adding an automatic feeder to one or both ponds to feed them when you're not there.

If you get smallmouth from Dan Laggis in Michigan they will be feed trained as will be the yellow perch if you get them from me. Carp shouldn't be a problem to get them to adapt to pellets if the natural pond feed is not enough to produce the numbers and size you want.

Feeding doesn't have to be that expensive.

Carp/LMB is an interesting idea.

Here is an article discussing the combination of goldfish and LMB in a small pond, which would be similar to Carp/LMB. One of the major problems was that goldfish got too large quickly. If you're removing fish for eating, this problem would probably be mitigated.

frix, we have worked probably 10 jobs in last 15 years where carp have taken over the pond. I literally have filled the shock boat with carp dumped and went out for more. If kept in balance I think you might satisfy your goals. How hard this is not sure?? If left unmanaged it will go carp heavy they destroy the repro of bass then the numbers of carp sky rocket then they run out of food and what resutls is a few monster bass, tons of carp and a muddy pond. I wish I had better advice if you want some carp come to GA i can get you plenty from lakes that pay me to remove them.

Greg.

Fritz wouldn't care about the largemouth bass in the second pond. He would only add them to control the carp. If he had just oodles of carp in one of his two ponds -- as long as they are large enough to eat -- he would be happy.

Right Harry? (aka Fritz)

+1

Thank you.
Regards,
FRIZ

My dad's friend who raises carp to eat originally stocked 8 adult carp he caught from a local lake. All were 20"-28" in size. They were more than enough to produce all the carp he could ever want to eat! His carp pond is just under an acre in size. The pond is only carp, no other fish. He catches the carp mostly by seine, but will use a hook and line if he is looking for entertainment. I would guess he uses about 5 adult carp per week between him and all his family members. At that rate, he seems to keep the carp numbers in check. He usually harvests carp in the 16"-22" range. He says when they get much bigger than that their taste goes down.

CJ:

How big is his pond, and do you know if there are underwater plants in the pond? I think Friz's ponds are pretty barren right now, they were just dug this past summer and have no fish in them yet.

His carp pond is just under an acre in size.

Scot you'd be amazed at the invertebrates that show up in a pond bottom fairly quickly. Common carp are not strictly plant eaters.

He does supplementally feed them, but not regularly. The pond is barren of aquatic vegetation other than some arrow weed, pickerel weed, cattails and rushes along the edges. The carp seem to spawn in the rushes in the spring. They go nuts splashing and rolling in that area. Best time of year to bow fish for them.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention he does use carp to fertilize his gardens. I does the old school Native American way of using fish as fertilizer.

Guess my point is bass can be your freind in attempts to keep them in check. The topic was carp/bass. In most cases we talk abotu bass taking over in this case I have seen carp takeover so more bass I feel is in order with none it might be difficult to control.

CJ good point with seine if hook and line only tough chore. Anyone ever been to broadway on the beach mrytle beach, sc? If so you have seen the thousands of carp. We removed over 8 tons in two nights, my suggestion add bass in adult size to get them established no idea what they did.

Is that Broadway at Myrtle Beach the pond that has the plank that leads out into the middle of it where you can buy fish food from the machines to toss to the fish surrounded by all the shopping? They have the water dyed a funky light blue and there are literally 1,000's of carp and goldfish? They also claimed there are HSB in there but I never saw any through all the carp! My fiancee's parents don't live too far from there in Ocean Isle Beach, NC.

Yes CJ that is it, http://www.broadwayatthebeach.com/propertymap.aspx
Probably should not put this in public forum but they clear over $5,000/month in the summer in fish food profits from the 20 gumball fish feeders. So they do nto want to rid of the carp b/c it is attraction and money maker but wanted to rid of the muddy water. They never followed up with me back in 2001 so I guess they continue to use dye. Cool job shocking at night with the wife dipping up 10-20 lb carp, we were both sore for a week.

Good point Greg. You are more knowledgable than I and manage waters for a living, so I take what you say seriously even if you it many not seem I do. Fritz may have to add more bass than I suggested and/or monitor the situation to see if he needs to add even more.

I just thought you didn't realize at first the Fritz doesn't really care about the bass in a second pond and they would only be a tool to manage the carp numbers.

What would you say the stocking rate would be for 5 to 6 inch bass in the fall after planting about 6 mixed sex large spring prespawn adult carp? Maybe more like 200?

If all you care about is the carp then limit the # and feed them pellets. Forget the LMB and use non-reproducing HSB and HBG. Trap , seine ect any offspring and takeout the big ones and eat them.

Eric this is shocking suggestion to me. I find it hard to believe HSB could control carp populaiton.

Cecil really no idea I would put in more bass than normal and pull bass out if you had basically no carp repro OR just add more bass later as you are getting too many carp might be better suggestion. OR maybe do as Eric mentions (probably knows something I do not) if does not to keep carp in check add bass then as adults.

Fritz is new to all this and actually grew up in a very large city in Germany. He's still learning to fish let alone seine. However I have no doubt he will learn fast. And at the same time he does not live at the pond so hands on management time is at a premium.

HSB + HBG + HUMAN control of the carp offspring in a small pond. Like a put and take fishery. The key is human control and low numbers.

I wish I was paying more attention when I was growing up in South Bohemia (Czech Republic). Majority of the carp raising ponds or Europe are there, and in Austria. Here is a webpage of the main city, Trebon. Unfortunately, there is no English version, but you get the idea from the pictures. They have a trademarked strain of carp, named after the city. Notice the biggest carp in the world, made up of the residents in the town square, lol.

http://www.trebonsko.cz/kategorie/trebonsky-kapr/

Most of what I can tell you from the webpage, and from my youth, has already been said here: The food carp get raised in large ponds with very little vegetation, save for the cattails, and some occasionally hydrila, with no other fish stocked with them. They love to splash between the cattails in the shallow water, when they spawn in the spring. Majority of their food is natural from the ponds, but they are supplementally fed pellets - and if I remember correctly, corn. Like with most fish feeding, you have to be careful how much you feed, because overfeeding can have detrimental effect on your water quality. In Czech Rep. these ponds are hundreds of years old and considered historical objects, so maintenance can get expensive.

Carp get harvested around November (for the Christmas table), at between 3-4 yrs of age. They are kept in clean water until Christmas and then sold live at grocery stores. "Generational" breeder carp are babied in separate ponds under very good conditions and artificially inseminated to increase yield. It seems like the ponds were emptied and harvested every 2-3 yrs. Many people come to watch the occasion, and warm themselves with liquor while they watch. The whole thing is firmly ingrained in the history and traditions of the region.

Carp are very strong fighting fish, but also very smart. I read an article about the biggest carp caught in the UK. It went into some public aquarium, where the fisherman who donated him came to feed him every day. The carp learned to recognize him and ate all kinds of food, but till his death he never again ate the bait that he got caught on. If you think about it, the same happens with other kinds of fish. After a while certain types of lures stop working. Most carp remember where and on what they got caught, but I remember a few that got caught in the same spot on the same bait. Their version of Darwin awards, I guess.

I read somewhere that the meat is comparable to salmon, except with those fine bones. I don't like salmon that much, except smoked, but I love smoked carp, fried carp with lemon juice and mashed potatoes, carp fish soup made from the heads, eggs, etc.

I hope some of this helped.