Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Gun Question

I have a firearm question for you guys, becuase I like the answers given on previous gun questions here, and because we all get along. =D I was about to register and post this on a gun forum but it was very hostile, I was not feelin it.

I am looking at savage weather warrior series rifle 6.5-7.5lbs before scope etc., it comes in
223 Rem (1 in 9") twist
243 Win (1 in 9.25")
7mm-08 Rem(1 in 11.5")
308 Win, 300 WSM, 250 Savage, 300 Savage (1 in 10")
270 WSM (1 in 11")
22-250 Rem (1 in 12")
204 Ruger (1 in 12")

I am most interested in the 243, 7mm08, 308, and 270.

I am looking to shoot from prairie dogs up to hogs at 200+ yards
And possibly some long range 500+ yd target shooting just for fun.

I want to prioritize in this order

Abilitity to kill a hog,
low recoil,
flat shooting round,

I would be shooting factory ammo, im not into reloading just yet.

I would like your opinion on this matter, but would be willing to listen to all gun make/models and all cal rounds. So just voice you opinion.

IMO the ability to kill a hog is the thing that gonna limit your ability to go with a smaller round. You can kill a hog with a .22lr, but to efficiently kill a hog you need a little more oomph...

My dad has a .204 Ruger and I am very impressed with the ballistics and accuracy of the round. Even though it is a small caliber, a well placed shot would easily kill a hog. A sub par shot may not be so good. 6.5 -7.5 pounds is a fairly lightweight gun and in a larger found you're gonna get some kick from the recoil. The bigger rounds will be a bit over kill on prairie dogs.

Going on your requirements, I'd go with the 7mm-08 as a do it all round. But I sure do like the Ruger .204.

jakeb I am not the most qualified guy to answer this but I own a 22-250 and it would cover your needs. 223 are a little quiter and would hoot alot like 22-250. My dad has a 204 and it is a great cal also. You could go with 243 and use 55grain bullets and do some sniping on prarie dogs.

I have a Tikka T3 in .223 that I got to shoot coyotes with and its become my all around everything gun. Ive killed about 10 deer with it so far and not one has made it more than 50 yards. It has no kick at all and for a smaller caliber its devistating when it hits. Ive killed a few 300 lbs plus hogs and it folded them up like a taco. Im not a fan of the .243 ive lost alot of deer with it. I have a .300 and .270 that I haven't shot since I got my .223.

I have both a Ruger .270 and an Armalite AR-15 in .223 and think either round would get the job done for your needs. However, like Travis mentioned, as a larger round, the .270 would probably be an awful lot of firepower for a prairie dog. Of course, if you want to play US military sniper, blowing up a prairie dog might be kinda fun, like you're shooting one of those big .50 cal sniper rifles at terrorists! It seems that the range in size of your stated targets creates a little bit of a dichotomy, though, as dogs and hogs are definitely very different creatures! Changing the grain size on your rounds might let you accomplish what you're looking for, though, so that's certainly a consideration.

Boy, that's a tough one. To give you a better answer, I really need to know how many prairie dogs you plan on shooting at in a sitting, just a few here or there, or will you be spending the whole day in a dog town?

Since you aren't reloading yet and will be shooting factory ammo, once you find a particular round that the gun really likes, make sure that you go out and buy all of that particular lot number that you can find ASAP. Different lot numbers shoot differently. If you are looking for accuracy, the lot-to-lot variation will kill ya.

In re-reading your post, it seems that the hogs take priority, with the p-dogs falling much further down the scale. In that instance, I'd lean towards the .243. When loaded with a tough bullet for hogs like the Barnes TSX, it will do just fine. If you want to shoot a longer distance, (500+ yds) you'll probably get into reloading, and there are a lot of 6mm bullets to pick from that have a good bc.

The .243 is based on the .308 cartridge, so there is a LOT of flexability with that rifle. The neat thing about most savage rifles is that they have a barrel that is held onto the receiver with a barrel nut, and the front of the bolt has a replaceable face, so with a very limited set of tools, you can change the gun to shoot a different caliber just by purchasing a different barrel. If you go with a .243, you can switch to shooting any of the other cartridges based on the .308, with just a barrel swap.

Savage parts

Figure on adding another pound to four pounds to the gun depending on what scope, bipod, sling, etc. you use.

I have a Browning A-Bolt Mountain Ti in .243 that shoots the Barnes TSX bullet very well. I reload, so my load isn't available from any factory, but using the Barnes 85g TSX bullet, sighting in at 250 Yds, the bullet is 2.5" high at 150 yds and 3.3" low @ 300 Yds. So, basically anything 300 Yds and less I just have to hold right on the animal. With that bullet, anything past 300 Yds it really starts to drop fast, there are better bullets for longer distance shooting, but I'm leery of using them for shooting game at closer ranges for fear of them not performing as well as a different bullet. With the Barnes TSX, I don't have those concerns. Once velocity drops to around 2,000 fps or less, the Barnes TSX tends to pencil thru and not expand.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either the .223, .243 or 7mm-08.

Depending on the size of the hogs, the .223 might be a little light, as would be the .243.

The .223 will have the least recoil, and will be the cheapest factory ammo to buy. With the 1:9, you can stabilize heavier bullets.

The .243 will have the flattest trajectory for hog hunting, but for P-dog shooting, you will have to watch barrel temp. You can burn out a barrel in short order shooting P-dogs if you don't watch it. For hogs, I'd go with a Barnes TSX bullet.

If the hogs are larger, the 7mm-08 will fill the bill nicely. There is a good selection of factory ammo available for it, although it's overkill for P-dogs, and it won't shoot as flat as a .243 or .223. You can get factory loaded bullets up to a 168g VLD for long range target shooting, albet at almost $2.00/shot.

jakeb, if you want a low cost rifle and ammo that can reach out and touch something you can't beat a surplus Mosin-Nagant, I've had one for years, but with the heavy woods up here I use a Ruger mini 30 for deer.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/pdf/mosin189130ammunition.pdf

22-250 is probably the closest match to what you are asking.

You are trying to put too many eggs in one basket, I keep coming back to the "low-recoil" requirement...get a 22-250 and dont look back.

Wow thanks everyone great info. This will be mainly a pig/coyote gun. I said p-dogs because I like to shoot them and like to use them to sight in a gun because I dont have a shooting range close to me. So I have prairie dog guns .22lr, 22-250, and my brother has an ar 15 in 223. I am also entertaining the idea of an ar15 style weapon in a cal larger than 223 because we run on herds of wild hogs of 50-100 every week or so and would like to be able to really deal out some hurt on them.

Sadly I have only shot 22 223 22-250 in rifle, never anything bigger. How is the .243 kick compared to these or say a .12ga?

As of right now I like the sound of the 223, but as mentioned my brother has that cal.

So that moves me to 243, or 7mm08. The cost of the 7mm08 ammo takes me away from it because I want to be able to shoot it casually and enjoy it as well, as use it for practical purpose.

perhaps I need to just get the 223

This like ponds is so confusing yet so much fun. I love doing the research

also comes in 25-06 if anyone has experience with that round

jakeb:

Throw your 22-250 on a kitchen scale and let me know what it weighs, also what bullet you shoot in it. I'll be able to give you a definate answer on recoil then.

scale says 9lbs.
and i usually shoot 45gr. jhp winchester cxp1's

On the .22-250, your recoil velocity is about 5.3 ft/sec and the lb/ft is 3.9. with the .243 (80g bullet at 3300 fps), the numbers would be 7.0 and 6.9 respectively, and with the 7mm-08 they would be 8.9 and 11.0 with a 150g bullet at 2600 fps.

Keeping the weight of the rifle constant at 9#. Now a 12ga. shotgun weighing that much will have 15 lb/ft of recoil shooting a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz load. (1200 fps) (that's about the same as a 30-06 with 180g bullets)

I've been shooting the 2506 for 30 yrs & 2 of my sons shoot it. Great cartridge. 75gr sierra pushing 4000fps will not come out of a whistle pigs neck but will penetrate 1/4" steel plate at 200yds. 100gr is a devistating deer size round & 120's will take elk. However recoil is much greater than 243 if you're sinsitive in that area.

In addition to what Ric said, there isn't as a great of selection in bullets in .25 caliber as 6mm or 7mm. 120 is the largest that you can go (and it's a roundnose at that) without going the custom bullet route. (I've got a .257 Wby and searched!)

With the Savage, you can do a barrel swap and always go to a shorter cartridge, but you cannot go to a longer cartridge (i.e. you can switch from a 30-06 based cartridge to the .308 family, but not the other way).

I don't know what's available in factory amo as I haven't shot factory amo in over 30 yrs. but bullet weights range from 50, 60, 75, 85, 86, 87, 90, 100, 110, 115, 117 & 120 as standard stock items available in soft points, hollow points, ballistic tips, solid copper, lead, flat nose & round nose. The 120gr is equivalent to apx. 180 gr 30 cal. Here's just a few of the 120 gr offerings:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=507717
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=289705
Here's what my oldest shot an 8 point buck with yesterday :
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=436628
Ok I did a search on midway for factory amo: http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowsePr...ng=653***690***
Here's Weatherby: http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowsePr...ng=653***690***

I'm facing a decision on a new gun for my 11 year old Grandson. He has taken a pig and 2 deer with his Rem 222. Great, flat shooting cartridge that has set a lot of records and we reload. However, it just doesn't have enough long range punch.

So, I'm thinking .243 but the 25-06 has had me me thinking. I just haven't spent any time looking at the 25 calibers.

A couple of thoughts:

Gun magazines have spent a lot of ink on the "If you could have only one gun" question with no real answer. It all depends.

The 30-06 gives you more options that any other gun but you have to reload to get the flexibility. You can go from mild to DAMN, that hurt.

The precision shooters shoot 6mm's, .243 to you. Or, .308's.

Whaddya mean only one gun? I need to sell a couple of them to get down to 50 or so. I need the closet space.

You may have passed up one of the all time best cartridges. Look at the 6.5 x 55.

Buy your grandson a new gun for YOUR birthday Dave!
Happy birthday!

About the same. Not as much "push" as a 12ga, but a sharper recoil.

I have a .243 in a Ruger 77R, and have fired maximum hand loads from 87gr up to 150gr. I don't notice much difference in them.

I have found the .243 to be a very accurate and versatile round, but so are the 7mm-08, 25-06, and 270. I like short action rifles, so personally I would rule out the .25-06 and .270 Win. Since you're not eating the prairie dogs, I wouldn't worry about overkill.

Jakeb, I have shot a 25-06 for years. I liked it until I recently bought ammo ($45/box)! At that point I switched to a .223. I have a six yr old son and it will be a great starter load for him. We have shot many hogs with a .223. As you have read, placement is the key. But, with little recoil and a flat shooting gun, placement should not be a problem w/ the .223.

For the p-dogs, we use a 17HMR. I refer to it as a high powered pellet gun. Low noise, no recoil, cheap ammo, and will fold up a p-dog. It is a great fun for everyone but the p-dog!

Here in Texas, we have bad problems with the hogs. Unfortunately, to ultimately solve our problem, a rifle is not going to get it done. We need a weapon of swine mass destruction!

Wow bobad, that 150 gr 243 bullet must be 2" long. Where can I get some of those?
You must have meant 105gr.

Ric:

Wildcat bullets used to make a 156g .25 cal bullet. I have some of their 130g .257 bullets and they barely stabilize at 3250 fps in a 1:10 twist. I have some of their 200g 7mm bullets and they work reall, really well in my 7mm, but I'm slinging them at 3300 fps. (1:9 twist)

Just one gun, then a Rem 22-250. But, I have one and recently bought a Tikka .223 and like to shoot it more than the 22-250 because the recoil is less. As you get older recoil is a big deal. I use to shoot a 7mmMag, but wouldn't pick up one today. Also bought a CZ 17HMR and they are a lot of fun. So...You simply NEED more than one caliber rifle

David u, is the tikka pretty accurate? I have been looking at them online and they look like nice guns.

The 243, 22-250, and 25-06, are all great rounds IMO. The 243 has a good punch but a little slower, the 25-06 will reach out there farther but kicks harder as well. The 22-250 has great velocity but with something as big as a hog shot placement will be important. Keep in mind too that all of these guns esp 243 and 25-06 can have a muzzle break installed on the end relatively cheap and that will reduce the recoil of the 25-06 to that of a 22-250 maybe a little less. To me accuracy is key if you cant shoot the 25-06 without flintching whats the punch power got over the 22-250? Something to consider.