Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose New pond need advice

We had a pond built this summer. It should be just over an acre when it is full. With the recent rain, it is about 30% full. I have been scouring the web for all the information that I can gather. I am in NE Alabama and want the pond to provide good bluegill fishing for the family, and an extra source of table fare. I don't care a lot for bass fishing and am considering bluegill, shellcracker, catfish and maybe black crappie. I have already added fathead minnows and a handful of crawfish from a nearby creek. Numerous large rocks were saved from excavation and have been added for structure, as well as a few small trees, and some old tires.

Any advice, do and don'ts or recommendations are appreciated.

Welcome to PB, Levon. Check through the site and you will probably change your mind about the crappie. They can ruin a water hole of less than about 25 acres.

Lots of bluegill lovers here. However, without bass for a predator, they can, like crappie, also over spawn and stunt. Successful ponds with big BG usually have way too many small, runty bass to keep the small BG knocked back.

You might consider some Channel Cats, Shellcrackers, and Hybrid Bluegills. With a good feeder or two, you can have a really great pond. As you catch the cats and hybrids, restock them. They're not all that expensive.

Or, there may be other ways to do it. Anybody?

Thanks Dave. I wouldn't mind the bass being in the pond, if needed. It seems like most information available is for growing LMB, that is not my goal. I want something that my 4 year old can catch easily, and still be something that will be good to eat. I have seen some info that the black crappie are not as likely to take a pond over as white crappie. Is this not true? Can small mouth be used instead of LMB? Could blue cat not be used as the top predator? Or would they just not eat enough live fish? I know that I have caught some from the Tennessee river with very large bream inside them.

I am sorry that may of the questions are redundant. I have been looking at many of the posts here with the similiar questions. It seems like region has a lot to do with some of the answers, and I haven't seen any questions from NE Alabama.

Thanks again.

I've also heard that about black crappie; mostly from fish sellers. However, according to specs, the black and white crappie are even when it comes to spawning.

I know absolutely nothing about SMB in your area. Heck, maybe in any area. They don't cut it in North Central Texas.

Yep, blues can be used as a top predator. They are the ultimate predator and get big enough to eat you out of house and home. Here's the deal about cats. They just don't successfully replace themselves with smaller fish. Everything in the water dines well on catfish fry and eggs. So you wind up with a bunch of big cats that dine well on your larger finned fish. OK, except for bullheads which you don't want. BTW, several of us have ignored our cats until they have created an out of balance condition. My CC are in the 6 to 8 lb. size and are now the top predators and the top of the food chain.

Regarding LMB, they spawn heavily enough to keep the bluegill under control. Depending on area and temps, BG can and often do spawn 3 or 4 times per year. To get big BG, you need to cut down on food competition from small BG. Bass do that quite well. The idea is to have a bass heavy pond. This means being overrun with small bass that crop the small BG. Most of the LMB will wind up at about 1 pound, maybe a little more.

It's not a bad formula for a fishing pond. Underfed bass aren't that hard to catch and you will have some really nice BG. Throw in some eating size catfish that a 4 year old can catch and also watch feeding on pellets and you will have a happy kid. Look at it this way: Everything in the pond is a tool that compliments the other tools. And they are all there to put a smile on a 4 year old face. Actually, Daddy is the ultimate tool to keep a 4 year old happy.

BTW, since you are new here, I would recommend that you buy Lusks book "Raising Trophy Bass". It is only a little bit about bass but an excellent primer on raising and caring for pond fish. Also, sales of the mag support this site. The mag pretty well answers a lot of questions that I still don't know enough to ask. Both are a bargain.

DD said it right I have never seen a pond without bass that produce any decent size bluegill. No biggie if you don't like them but pretty much a neccisty. You might also add to the mix some Hybrid striped bass. And yes the blue cats or more predatory like but can not control bluegill reproduction. Black crappie have almost the same potential to "takeover" a pond. If 1/3 full you can this time of year go ahead and add the bluegill, redear, small channel catfish, etc. Where do you plan on buying them? I work with a hatchery in NE, AL that supplies excellent fish.

Greg, your thoughts about SMB in this situation?

They do work in some parts of north GA and AL, overall require a higher diet than largemouth so maybe if bass is not goal might help keep bluegill in check, but no SMB expert. In fact who wants to take me fishing with rod and reel I've never caught one.

Greg, make it up to Pittsburgh and we'll get into some smallies.

I am not sure where we will buy our fish. I have been trying to locate someone close.

Greg, can you send me the contact information for the hatchery that you work for?

WHere is Henagar? I might be able to make the del if you want, if your close to Leesburg. If not they can do it for you. Davis Fish Farm 256-504-4492, great folks with great fish and they do not try to oversell you like some others.

I am about an hour from Leesburg. I talked with them earlier, before the pond starting filling up. It is good to know that they have good fish. Now, if I can just make up my mind on what to put in there.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record ( ), SMB will not control panfish reproduction in a pond like this. Go with the largemouth bass as a predator. Smallies are great fun, but not as effective a predator as largemouths in this type of pond.

P.S. Greg, if you ever get up here, I'll get you on the smallies!

Why not avoid the problems with the stunting over-productive nature of both BG and LMB in ponds under 1 acre?

If you want fun, healthy, fat easy to catch lepomis (BG like fish) and are willing to feed then think about HBG and HSB or HBG and CC or HBG and SMB. The lower fecundity (spawning numbers) of HBG and CC/SMB (or 0 for HSB) should do better than fighting the never ending battle with BG/LMB in small ponds.

Dave and Sunil, I will hold you to it, of course I cannot find time to go fish the kick butt largemouth lakes we have around here.

EW, I have never seen a pond that is controlled with just HSB as predator. Agree hybridBG better choice in short term but what happens a few years down the road?

Dave good to kow the smallies will not keep them under control, thought that might be the case.

I have thought about using hybrids. Has anyone here got the "Georgia Gaints" from Ken's Fish Farm? From the information on his website, they sound like they would be awesome.

You should run a search on Georgia Giant. You will find hundreds, if not thousands of posts on it.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=112031

Do not believe all you read about them. Apply some common sense to your stocking rates. Hey we even sold a fair amount this year. Deb you still around?

Greg :

With the lower fecundity rate of HBG I think that a combo of HSB and SMB will control the limited # of HBG offspring. Stock them (HBG) according to normal or lower recommendations. Also the adult HBG will prey on the HBG offspring.

It will be a put and take fishery. Put them in grow them and catch them out. During that time period also catch and take out HSB and SMB and when the numbers get low re-stock.

Greg the comment by Dave was about SMB controlling regular BG which I agree with when stocked in normal numbers .

Hey hun I am still here. Sorry I missed this thread. IMHO if I was the owner of a one acre pond with a single goal in mind of making the kids happy (and not putting a lot of effort into the pond), then I would go with a HBG/HSB/gambusia and possible CC mix. Stock the HBG (Georgia Giants or not) at no more than 1000 to the acre with about 200-250 HSB. Make sure of course that the calcium levels in your water will support the HSB. Throw in about 5000 gambusia for a "natural" food source and supplement with a high protein pellet feed. Channel cats are completely up to the customer. The jury is out on that one as they do provide a decent meal as well as acting in a somewhat predatory stance, but they can compete with the bream for the pellet feed, they can muddy the pond bottom, and can grow to a pretty remarkable size over a few years.
It is also good to note that a decent aeration system would come in handy. The south appears to be in a record breaking drought this year and the worse thing you could have happen is a severe drop in water levels leading to increased biomass resulting in a possible dissolved oxygen crash or turnover. Just some food for thought.

BTW, welcome on board and enjoy whatever journey you choose.

Deb

Deb great recommendations! Yep ML I just wrote that.

I'm a member of the CC jury; deliberations continue.

Levon,

I think I'm probably about the only person(still posting) on this forum (other than Gator) who has actually stocked, raised, and studied the GG in their own pond. I've studied them carefully for about a year now. You can see my documented results on my website.

I don't consider one year of study of the GG enough experience to warrant solid recommendations, but I can offer some observations.

1) they are an absolute blast to catch and under measured conditions have proven to be (on my ponds) about 40% more aggressive than other BG including native BG and CNBG.

2) the growth rates have been impressive...not 400% as claimed in some marketing things you may see, but very good, solid growth which exceeds national studies for BG and CNBG in the State of Texas.

3) sustainability is one of the big questions I still have regarding these fish. Many folks on this Forum have predicted some very dour happenings for ponds stocked with GG's. Predictions have included take-over by green sunfish and/or green sunfish look alikes.

The key parameter to sustainability of the target GG fish is having adequate predators in the pond. In my case, I use the HSB as the only predator and stock them in a 5 to 1 ratio with the GG's...that is 1 HSB for every 5 GG stocked. This ratio, I believe is critical to successfully growing out the target fish. I believe the HSB offers the best choice for a predator for the GG's for many reasons, one of which is the numbers of HSB can be very accurately controlled.

Based on my one year of experience, I believe the sustainability issue often raised with the GG's is vastly overstated. In my case, I didn't see virtually any surviving GG offspring until September following a Dec. prior stocking. I began seeing a few ( two to four or five) offspring in traps in September. Those fish have now completely disappeared. None are showing up...not a one. Indicating predation by the HSB....but one year isn't enough time to make any conclusions yet.

I should add that the pond under study is small, less than 1/4 acre, and shallow 5 to 6 feet max.

One additional observation, the GG is a minnow eating fish. They prefer live small minnows. The recommendation of stocking Gambusia with these fish is extremely smart, very intelligent combo. Fatheads will not survive predation, but the Gams will not only survive but provide a preferred food source for the GG's.

I have several ponds and several more on the way. The GG pond, although very small, provides tremendous entertainment for my grandkids, friends, and myself. If you have any questions on my experience, I'd be happy to try to respond to them.

p.s. the study results, pictures and documentation I referred to can be see at http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/TGG.htm

Thanks for all the information and recommendations.

I am looking them all over and ready the many other posts here. What steps do I need to take to ensure that the pond is ready for which ever fingerlings that I decide to go with.

Thanks, again.

If you have not had it done get your pond bottom soil tested and learn all you can about water quality and the food web (base).

http://aquanic.org/publicat/state/il-in/as-503.htm

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/13452410-464fs.pdf?CFID=13452410&CFTOKEN=70431263

Thanks Ewest, I will look this over this weekend. My horse pasture is up the hill from the pond. It will get a great deal of runoff from the pasture. Will this have a positive effect on the pond? Reduce the amount of fertilization needed? I hadn't planned to aerate, due to no electricity close to the pond. How effective, and economical are windmill aerators?