Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond Construction Question

I've talked with three different excavators for bids on my 1/2 acre water table pond. No surprises but the quotes are all over the map. In the research I've done on here I keep hearing about pumping out the water from the pond as it is being dug. One of the contractors was leaning towards digging it with a crane. The other two were going to be using track hoes for the digging. Only one of the three mentioned pumping the water as it is being dug, and it was one of the excavators using a track hoe. Should I be concerned whether or not the water is being pumped out during digging? I just assumed that a crane is always used in/under the water - am I wrong?

The first quote came in at $30,000. Keep in mind the pond site is heavily wooded and needs to have around two acres cleared to have an area to spread the spoils.

The second quote came in at $14,000 by the contractor using the crane. He was recommending shooting the grade and running an overflow pipe to the nearby river to "keep the water moving" in the pond. I question this logic as the water table in the test hole looks to be the same level as the river, by the eyeball method.

The third quote came in at $20,000 to $25,000 and was by the contractor that was going to pump the water during digging. They also built our house for us in 2004, so I know the quality of their work. They have done a lot of residential development and have put in a number of ponds in their platts. Their quote included stripping an area near the pond of its topsoil and backfilling with the spoils to create a building site, which currently the property doesn't have. This, I feel, will increase the value of property more than the increase in the cost of his quote over the lowest quote. I also have experience with his company and know that they have the biggest and the best when it comes to equipment and operators.

So.............what about the pumping?

Hmmm,I dont know about the pumping,but it sounds like your going to go with the 3rd quote.You already know what kind of work he does,as appossed to gambling on someone new.Just my 2 cents,which by the way,is about all my advice is worth anyway.

No,refrain yourself,dont say it.

Do any of the three have experience digging water table ponds?

Water table ponds can be dug without pumping out the water as the pond is dug, but the downside to that is 1) the operator can't see what he's doing and he has to work by "feel" 2) it's slower because as the water sloshes out of the bucket it carries soil out with it 3) there is no way to get an accurate contour on the bottom of the pond.

No matter what equipment is used, if you want an accurate bottom (depth and contour), they will have to pump the water out as it seeps in. If you are getting charged by the hour for equipment, then you will be $$ ahead if the water is pumped out. (the operator can fill the bucket fuller with dry/moist/wet soil than if water was sloshing out of the bucket with every lift.

From a machine owners standpoint, I would perfer to dig dry, rather than keep the pivot points submerged. The water helps wash out the grease and seems to me it that the pivots wear faster if they are constantly submerged.

I had a 2 acre pond excavated 3 years ago for $30K. It also required the removal of a dense woods with an average tree diameter of 8". Gas prices were similar to what they are now. An excavator and a late model Catepillar D8 dozer was used.

My pond is tile and spring fed. Is there that much more work in building a water table pond?

The third one does. I'm not sure about the first or second, however the second guy is used a lot by the county drain commission and road commission. He came refered by a client of mine that is high up at the county road commission. He also has done some dredging of the river that runs through my property about 10 years ago, so he knows the property well.

I wish I could come in at that, but so far the three quotes aren't even close to that.

You definitely want the water pumped out, trust me. I have been digging a 20 acre pond in a sand pit at work with a 345 Cat excavator (big) the last few weeks and the pond is full. They are using the water from the pond to wash the sand so it must stay full. It sucks not being able to see what you are digging, and you can't properly dig shelves and contours into the bottom and sides. Also an excavator will NEVER get the pond more than 8-10 feet deep without pumping the water out and driving the excavator down into the hole to get deeper. Finally digging without pumping makes a BIG mess. Sand and clay full of water cant really be piled very high, and the water runs everywhere.

Here are some pics of my pond when it was done by a friend who is not in the pond digging business (no one really is except Mike Otto) but he has dug about 20 ponds.

home and pond pics

esshup
Do you have a watertable pond and did you dig it yourself? My experience with watertable ponds is that they tend to lose a lot of water during dry spells. I live near you and my pond is down about 1 foot now and we are just at the end of June. I guess I am going to have to drill a well.

dap:

Dang, you ARE close! Welcome to PB! It's a watertable pond, a guy from work and I dug it. He has an excavator, 2 yd pan scraper, and an ASV. I rented the rest of the equipment; dozer, dumptruck & backhoe. The standing water in the woods is just now disappearing. How big and how old is your pond?

Denny Vermillion dug my well, give him a shout. My well puts out 28 gpm and I doubt that it will be enough, although I can up the output by changing the pump. Denny said it would pump 100 gpm if needed.

Whereabouts in Plymouth are you?

NonTypicalCPA,
My pond is a 1 acre excavated water table pond, in quite sandy soil. It was dug with a track hoe, and the water was pumped ( A LOT ) during construction. The land is so low, - and the water table so high, that we needed to stay ahead with the pumping; otherwise, it was like digging a whole in the beach at the ocean's edge. It would constantly cave in, and the sides would collapse.

In order to achieve the depth and contour that I wanted, we dug during the day and let the pump go all evening to help drain and dry-out the "shelves" we constructed. The track hoe, the following day, could then be driven down onto the "shelves", where it could achieve a greater reach. This permitted the construction of several 14 - 18 ft deep channels (when the pond is at full pool.) These channels were a life saver during the past two years drought, providing some depth to the pond as the foot print shrank late each summer. This year is a different story... I'm thinking about building an ark.

Every situation is different, but I could not imagine digging another pond on my site without pumping the water. I don’t think the results would be satisfactory.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Your site sounds very similar to mine - lowland with a high water table. I dug a 20 foot square hole last year to about 10 feet deep and was in water the whole time. The sides kept collapsing for a few days afterwards. That hole didn't drop more than 12 inches the entire summer and we had a very long dry spell in July-August.

I expect that at some depth, the pumps won't be able to keep up with the water coming into the pond. It never crossed my mind of the track hoe moving down into the pond to dig deeper. That alone makes pumping a more reasonable way to go.

"I expect that at some depth, the pumps won't be able to keep up with the water coming into the pond."

We discovered this problem. We ended up renting a second pump about the size of Hummer, which did the trick. My pond was excavated in a trade: I got a hole in the ground and the other guy got soil for his composting business. It was a sloooowwwwww process. They dug as their schedule permitted, as their funds permitted, and as they needed dirt. It took a total of three years to completion, and it was done in stages. We dug two separate ponds, with a 30 ft wide +/- strip of land between them, - each pond around 1/2 acre. This made pumping a little more manageable. One pond could be pumped down to only a couple feet of water depth, and you needn't worry about pumping the other 1/2 acre of water. It would only drop a few feet during the day's dig, from seepage into to the empty pond.

When the second pond was complete and pumped down, we dug the strip of land that separated the two ponds, forming it into an island. You should have seen the waterfall when the full 1/2 acre rushed into the empty half acre. It cut two HUGE, DEEP channels on each side of the island as the two ponds formed one big pond.

The first pond had been complete for about two years, and I was getting very anxious. Instead of waiting as I should have, I caught a ton of bluegill from friend's ponds and stocked it (as well as with 30 channel cats from a pet store!). The water evacuated this pond, into the empty one, with such speed and force, it lost about 4 ft of water depth in a minute or so. The water evacuated the pond so fast, it left hundreds of bluegill fingerlings flopping along the now-dry banks. The water was literally pulled out from under them! It was insane. I ran around through the mud, tossing them into the water.

esshup

I am located on oak road bout a mile north of walmart. My pond is about a year old and close to an acre. Do you get alot of variation in you water levels? I don't know about you but its getting really dry here. We need rain. It always seems to miss me. Maybe someday we can get together and share information.

dap:

Sent you a pm