Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Catfish and/or Yellow Perch

I currently live in NW Montana (where at times it gets to -20+ during the winter) and am in the process of digging a small pond (roughly 25' x 25' x 4.5' or 5' deep) for use as a very small and pvt fish farm that can also supply some fishing for my 3yr old. The question that I have is the depth of 4.5' or 5' good enough for either catfish or yellow perch in my area? (I am digging this myself with a small tractor with backhoe and front loader {for those that care a Kabota BX23} so I can not easily go too much deeper).

Also, if the winter here combined with the pond depth will be a problem is there some sort of pond heater that one can use? (I have seen some at HomeDepot for very small ponds)

Thanks again for your time.

Bump for Dr. Dave Willis, Ed Eitel, et. al.

IMHO 5 feet sounds way too shallow, at least without a heater.

Leaving the bump for the Wyoming and northern experts. But, it would be cheaper to get someone to deepen it a few feet than to pay to have it heated even for 1 year., if it could even be done. That is still over 20,000 gal. of water.

burgermeister:

How many feet do you think I would need?

We don't often get below -5F around here but have gotten to -24 for a 24 hr period. Froze water lines that were down 36". The guy that dug my pond uses 8 feet as a minimum depth "so the fish can live".

Course 25x25 aint very big sideways either. Given your weather I would do what you need to do to get at least 8' deep, 10' if you can even if you need to pay someone to help out.

If you check out some of the threads here you will also learn there is a relationship to total volume of water and "carrying capacity" - how many fish in total pounds you can reasonably expect to keep alive. More water will allow you more pounds of fish, all other things being equal.

I think heating pond water is lunacy. Especially in Wyoming.

As Scott says - 8 feet for wintering over is recommended in Ohio and we don't get nearly as cold as out in Big Sky Country. If I had to guess from 2000 miles and 7 or 8 degrees of Latitude away, I'd want 12 feet minimum.

Heating a whole pond is lunacy. Using a surface heater to keep an open spot might make some sense, if 1) you couldn't keep the ice snow-free and 2) you didn't want the possible supercooling that using aeration for the same purpose entails. If I had electric at the pond, I think I'd see how big a hole a 1500W heater would keep open. If that seemed large enough, you could do a worst-case electric bill calculation by figuring the heater will run 24/7 (which I think would be real close for a heater with a fixed 40 deg F thermostat setting).

Thanks everyone for your input as it has been of much help and very informative. Based upon what I have been reading from here it looks like the best thing to do is to fill back up my test hole and call it a day untill I can afford to do things right and bring in the professionals.

Like you I am a lurker not a lunker but since water temp would would be the concern and I guess it would stay around 38...why not use a small aerator to keep the pond open during the winter ?

Mmessuri,

10 ft. of depth would probably work as a minimum for YP. Keeping snow removed from winter ice would be a requirement on a pond of that size.
Have you considered a “put and take” trout fishery? Just restock early each spring. Trout that make it through the winter, consider a bonus.

Good luck,

Ed

Michael - Don't be discouraged just because you need more pond to reach your goals than you can afford right now - you fit in with almost all of us (except Tony Stewart) in that regard.
If you have the ability to dig your 25x25x5 pond with your own equipment you will have a blast and learn a lot in the process. There is a lot more to pond enjoyment than the fish.
Plus you can put some fish into the pond in the spring for your 3 year old to catch. You will most likely loose them in the following winter but I believe you will find it worthwhile nonetheless.
At a future point when you are ready and able to invest a little more you can easily drain what you have and enlarge it, all the wiser from your initial experiences. Adding fish each spring is probably very doable and certainly less expensive than a heater.
BTW to calculate the cost of operating a 1500 watt heater element (like the ones in electric water heaters) goes like this:
1500 watts = 1.5 kilowatts.
1 kilowatt for one hour = 1 kWh (kilowatt hour).
Many places in the US that kWh will cost you 8 to 12 cents in the winter. So if it were 10 cents per kWh the cost per hour would be 15 cents. For 24 hours 24 x $.15 = $3.60 per day, $108 per 30 day month. For the cost of running the heater for 4 months you could stock a lot of nice fish including fathead minnows to feed the bigger fish on. I saw a 7" bluegill grow to over 10" over the summer in a new pond (they grow faster in new ponds) that also had fathead minnows in it.

So - take heart. I encourage you not to abandon your project. Do what many of us do - we get as much pond as we can given our resources. I do not think you will be disappointed. The 3 year old will be thrilled and that will thrill you.

aatw....nice post. mmessuri, i concur 1000%

I agree with Asleep at the Wheel !

Asleep at the Wheel:

Thank you so much for the pep-talk! This is exactly what I needed; however, after reading your post and doing some more research on the net (along with reading a bunch of living off the land type articles in several of my books) I have changed my plans a little bit.

Since I have never raised fish before (other than having some very small ponds in the past) what I have deceided to do is to start very small with a fish farm (using channel catfish) that is 9'x12'x3' I figure this is just about the right size for me to get my feet wet with and see if this is something that I wish to do on a larger scale (expanding it to a full sized pond in that case) and on the other side of the coin this will not only provide easy entertainment for my 3 year old, in the feeding of, viewing of and the fishing for these fish but it will also provide a small amount of food each year (I have not checked into the cost of stocking yet nor fish food but I can't imagine that it would be that large of an expense when compared to purchasing fish).

This size of a fish farm also lends itself to the possiblity of heating and perhaps building a shelter over it to help keep the snow off of it. Also this size is perfect for me to try some messing around with DIY style pond related items (aeration and the such) without breaking the bank.

On a related note, I am starting to investigate the use of the following possibilites for the liner: Cement or a 10 mil Tarp (I have not researched enough to know the pros or cons in either case so I am not sure if it is even a valid option {for example I am not sure how thick I would need to the cement and if a 10 mil tarp would hold up or not} ).

Well that about covers it for now, except for the fact that I need to figure out what to do with all this dirt that I have already built up! (I guess that it's good that I have 4 acres mainly of uneven ground so I can always find some places for it if I look hard enough)

As Tony the Tiger would say - Grrrrrreaaaaat!

I can't talk to your liner questions but I am glad you will be getting your feet wet. I am also very new at this - dug my pond last year and it is not quite full. I wish I had that dirt here - I have several spots for it. Actually I wouldn't need the dirt if I had your Kabota.

And I agree the channel cats should be very cost effective raised on feed. I don't have the experience but many here do - perhaps someone will chime in and address your questions.

Glad to have you in the "pond crazy" club. Be sure to keep us updated on your doings. Posting pics of your pond as you go is fun too.

Michael:

Take a look at the Po' Boy RAS concept in Cecil Envy . Your 9'x12'x3' thought line is getting convenient-sized enough you could probably overwinter a fair % of the fish you have in the pondette in a PBR. For easily feed-trained fish (BG & CC, for example) they are pretty easy to run. Setup cost for a 100 gallon unit with minimum bells and whistles is around $100.

Asleep at the Wheel:

Here are the first pics.

Day 1 of dig:





Day 2 of dig (hit 3 feet on one end, time to level everything out)

MM - off to a great start. After I read Theo's post, I too wonder if you could have year-round fish by building a RAS - Recirculating Aquaculture System I think it is. Yoo control the water quality including temperature by constant waterflow - probably with a pump. Do you have a year-round source of water near the pond?
Several good threads here on RAS. Have you considered trout? They like the cold temps.

Here is one thread about flow through water that Cecil Baird uses in Indiana for trout and perch.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002371#000001

There is another great and entertaining thread on Bruce Condello's "Poorboy RAS" that he used to raise yellow perch.

BTW - where in NW Montana are you? My daughter spent 2 years in Kalispell - actually one year in Bigfork and one in Kalispell. Beautiful country.

Sorry for the delay in this reponse, I have been out digging and also searching the web for information on numbers of fish to stock (found an article that mentions 6-10 fingerlings ber cubic foot which gives me the calculation of this:

12x9x3 = 324 x 6 = 1944 (way to many in my view)

so I am still digging and digging for a better source of stocking rate.

Anyway, I do have a hose connection from my house at about 50' away.

I have not; however, now that you mention it I will look into it!

Thanks for the thread information they are very interesting.

I am 10 miles west of Kalispell in a small speck on the map called Kila (I perfer not to be in city limits).

BTW: Anyone have any good stocking rates information for CC or trout?

Thanks and more pictures will follow within the next few days.

I cannot help you with stocking rates for the type of aquaculture you are pursuing. You could try the search feature to see what turns up.

I do remember seeing some stocking rates that are like you say, pretty dense. I think the number may get reducede quickly due to fiah mortality including cannabalism. Hey only the strong survive.

With the type of pond you are building I would call that aquaculture. You will need to learn how to maintain the water quality which I believe will require a steady stream of incoming water to maintain levels of DO (dissolved oxygen) and to remove fish wastes like ammonia.

The stocking rates are related to eventual "carrying capacity" and as they say "it depends" It depends on the water qualities (temperature, pH, DO, ammonia, etc) and of course food supply. Read some of the threads under " creating the food chain" - great stuff. The minute organisms called phytoplankton convert the sun's energy to food (hydrocarbons? maybe) and releas oxygen into the water. They are eaten by little critters called zooplankton. Both are eaten by aquatic insects and iddy biddy fish, which are eaten by bigger fish, etc. So anyway the amount of fish that can be in a pond depend on that stuff. You as the pondmiester can do things like aerate, feed, add fresh water, etc. to increase the carrying capacity.

I would also say you could probably take a WAG and put some fish in and see what happens. If you put in too many you will know and you can easily remove some - that is one of the great things about small ponds - easy to make changes. I think the numbers you found absoultely depend on feeding and aerating, as well as waste removal (by introducing a constant flow of water). If it were me I would start with only a couple of hundred very small (2" and down) or 50 2-3" fish and see what happens.

When were you thinking of adding the fish? How will the pond get filled with water?

Here is a good link to aquaculture info with a search function . http://aquanic.org/index.htm