Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Bream issues

Long time reader, fairly recent subscriber and first time poster here. This site should be called the pond encyclopedia because everytime I have a question about my pond, I come here and more times than not it has already been asked and answered.

Now to my current problem - Some friends and I stocked a 3 acre pond in West Georgia last year. We drained it, refilled it (great stream running in) and then stocked with 3000 coppernose (we thought - read on) and 6000 fathead minnows in early May 2008. 150 F1 largemouth were added in early July. We fertilize and feed.

This year we started trying to catch a few bream and bass just to keep tabs on the size. Last weekend I was there and out of approximately 10 fish caught, I think only 1 was a coppernose and I am almost positive the others were green sunfish (I checked the posts on here for pics).

Today we called our supplier (I am withholding the name for now pending the outcome of my situation) and he said that there was no way the green sunfish could have been in the fish he brought us. He said that they drain their ponds every year and there was no way any green sunfish were mixed in with our fish.

There were definitely no green sunfish in the pond when it was refilled and stocked and I don't think they could have come from upstream because there are no other ponds upstream from ours.

Where do you all think they might have come from? Do you think it is possible that they came from the hatchery?

Thanks in advance for the help.

I know basically nothing but I have a feeling the quote "great stream running in" is going to be jumped on by many.

I just mean it has continuous flowing water from a spring about 400 yards upstream. There are no other ponds around or upstream of ours.

Green sunfish are a very hardy species that can live in streams and water conditions other fish cannot. It wouldn't surprise me if that is where they came from. With their large mouths it would also not surprise me if your coppernose were small enough they became dinner.

I do not think they came from your fish supplier. Do you remember if the fish you stocked had a large mouth for their body size? or did you happen to take a pic of what you stocked? I have a new pond and it is full of tiny bullhead about 2 inch long, and I KNOW they did not come from the hatchery. I have a large watershed and they had to have come from upstream somewhere with the big rains. I learn to live with them and manage them. Bottom line I trust and inspect everything from my suppliers and any unwanted fish came from mother nature.

The above information is key... A great stream running in! GSF are able to live in the smallest of streams. I mean ones you can easily jump or even step across. There is a high likelihood they were in that stream when you closed it back off and started filling it back up.

What were the size of the coppernose(CNBG) when you stocked them? As others have said, if they were small, they may have become GSF food... If you can get a picture of the mystery fish, post them. We all love to see fish from different regions of the country.

Take solace though... All is not lost! This is a fixable problem and you can still attain your goals. It may require some sampling to see what you have and some management afterwards and perhaps some additional stocking, but have faith. Is it possible your CNBG were contaminated with GSF, yes... However, I'd put my money on the GSF already being present in the stream.

Welcome, DHB, and thanks for the question.

It seems most likely that the GSF came in from the spring/stream...if they were present in numbers to overwhelm your CNBG, there almost have to have been very substantial numbers of them present from the onset, unless your supplier stocked almost all GSF, which seems highly unlikely, or you somehow p*ssed off those guys out in California and they're having their way with you.

In any event, all is not lost, and may work out very well for you.

What are your goals? I'd guess by your stocking numbers and F1's that you're really shooting for some big LMB....it's likely that they'll make some serious chow out of the GSF, and between the LMB depredation and the fecundity of the CNBG, you'll be out of GSF rather rapidly.

So, although the presence of contaminants such as GSF invariably makes the knowledgable pond master want to either blow the dam or simply give the pond over to occupants of equal stature, such as carp and bullheads, in actuality little damage has probably been done, and you may have an early bonus forage species.

dittos. welcome to pondboss.




i know notheeenk.....




truer words have never been spoken here.

DHB, where are you located? i am in east alabama and i feel that my first supplier might have had gsf in with my bg stocking.

im near lagrange,ga and auburn,al

it really depends on what supplier. The ones deal with I have been getting fish for years on one occasion I saw a green sunfish in there. They killed off that pond after it was detected. Reputable hatchery no way. My guess is the draininig it part. If only a little hole hee and there they coudl easily have made it through the driaining process. By being bigger than the CNBG they had an advantage thus the abundance now. They could have eaten the baby bass.

Thanks for all the info so far. By "great stream running in" I really only mean it has continuous flow even in the summer and even if it does not rain for some time. We are in the process of determining if there are GSF above or below our pond, but none were found when it was drained. And, by "drained", I mean there is a large pipe through the dam that we can easily open and let virtually all of the water out - there were no fish remaining when we closed the pipe. Wouldn't it be odd if GSF were in the stream above, but none were found when we drained the pond?

As for goals, we really want a balanced fishery, but if one goal had to be superior, it would be large bluegill. One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that we also put in 40 SMB fingerlings last fall, so the total bass number is around 190.

As for how we fix the problem, should we try to trap them out? Or, should we add some adult LMB temporarily to try to consume the GSF population? Any other ideas?

Thanks again for all the help.

If your goal is large BG, the typical management practice would be to have a large population of bass. Under those conditions, the number of small GSF should steadily decline, GSF being more streamlined and hence and easier meal to swallow than BG. Remaining GSF should be large ones, a joy to behold, catch, and (if so inclined) eat.

It sounds like adding adult CNBG and LMB is in order. 190 bass is a low number to be considered crowded in a 3 acre pond (and the 40 SMB will not be quite as effective at predation as the LMB will).

Futher proof that Theo is in fact one of the most intelligent members of this forum. Without mentioning any names (I'm talking about Rainman and Yolk here) other forum members should heed this wisdom.

DHM, you'll need a little patience as this will not be cured overnight nor in a growing season... However, I would add another 100-150 advanced LMB fingerlings. Since your goal is leaning more towards larger BG, you can stock a little higher number of bass and that will lead to the expedited removal of the GSF in your pond.

Some pics and a little more info.

This is a picture of a fish I caught in April 2009. The pond was stocked in May 2008 and there were no fish in there when we capped the pipe. I think this is some sort of hybrid - am I right? If so, that makes me think they (the hybrids/GSF) had to come from the hatchery. I wouldn't think my CNBG would have spawned last year and even if they did, it would not have happened until late summer. It doesn't seem to me like there has been adequate time for my CNBG to cross with an existing, mature GSF (assuming there was one) and for that offspring to get as big as the fish in this photo taken in April. Am I wrong?



A GSF caught last weekend.



A CNBG caught last weekend.




Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.
DHB

Here is a link to the pics in case you can't see them.
Fish Pics

DHB I tried to see if I could fix the pic links but no luck.

Is there something wrong with them - they show up fine when I view them?

yes I see red x boxes.

Interesting?? - Thanks for trying to fix.

Anyone else see the pics?

Nope.

Red X's for me too.

Pics work fine for me... Two GSF and a fine looking CNBG. Get some more bass in your pond and the GSF problem will go away in a couple years. In the meantime, keep track of your catches and do seine surveys. You may need to add more CNBG but not necessarily...

Pic No 1 appears to be a HBG. Pic no. 2 looks to be a pure greenie. Pic 3 looks to be a HBG, but hard to tell with a nose-on shot.

Here is a link to the album for those who can't see the pics.

Fish Pics

1 = HBG

2 = HBG but could be a BG pic uncertain

3 = GSF

Fish #2 is the CNBG, as noted by CJ