Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site New to this. Need help with pond -Please

My family and I want to put in a pond. We would like a decent size pond to fish (catfish and maybe bass)in and let wildlife drink from. Have a hook up with the bulldozer. Was thinking of a pond 50 ft in diamter and sloping from to a 5ft depth. Is that deep enough for fish here in West Texas to survive (ranch is near Big Lake Texas)? Also do I need to aerate for catfish? How thick do we put the sodium bentonite on the bottom of the pond? Please help. Not rich, just want a place for the kids to do some fishing on our place and help the wildlife out a bit. PS-we have a decent windmill well to supportthe pond with water during hot summers.

fedagent [If that is indeed your real name. ]:

Welcome to the forum!

50 feet in diameter is certainly big enough to have some catfish. That's on the order of 1/20 acre; you could have on the order of a couple dozen Channel Cats (CC) if you fed them.

Any significant number of bass would be harder due to the pond size unless they were pellet trained, but these are available from some hatcheries and perhaps you could get some.

5 feet is probably way too shallow for West Texas without supplemental pumping. Do you know the capacity of your water well - how many gallons per minute it can deliver and for how many hours a day without dropping it's water level below the inlet? This would help our Texas drought experts (their number is legend) figure how deep you should aim for to handle your (evaporation loss + pumped water gain) losses during the dry season(s).

Whether or not you would need Bentonite depends on your soil type, which can vary from one place on the property to another (that's why it's a good idea to invest in test holes at the potential pond sites on a piece of land). Hopefully someone near you will have a rough (or better) idea what your chances are based on "average" local soil conditions.

How big and deep or big should be the pond be for catfish? Or even bass?

fedagent,

It depends...on what you consider decent fishing. I've had a whole bunch of fun with 1/4 acre ponds with LMB. You can't expect to fish them every day and you shouldn't expect to raise trophies, but you can have fun with it. Not many people I have ever met have said, "wish I had made my pond smaller", in fact not one.

Your question on sodium bentonite is kind of a concern...implies that you know your prospective pond may leak. I would be very hesitant about counting on sodium bentonite to adequately seal your pond. Those folks who mine it and sell it are in your area and George, the owner, is very straight forward about telling you how much is needed to adequately seal a pond...believe me it is a bunch and it is not 100% certain either. I recommend you call George and discuss it with him.

A second recomendation I would give you would be to call and/or e-mail Mark McDonald, one of the original founders of Pond Boss. Mark is a great guy and is located in Midland, I believe. He handles pond liners, which are in demand in West Texas. I don't have Mark's e-mail with me, but can get it to you if interested...he is also probably in your book.

Get some pricing on liners vs sodium bentonite and also consider their respective reliability...and if you proceed, build the pond as large as you can reasonably afford.

Fed, do neighbors have tanks that reliably hold water? Check them out. The biggest deal is whether you have sand or sandy loam. You can sometimes get by with 35% clay in the mixture. Like ML says, bentonite is pretty iffy. Besides, it doesn't do much good to bentonite the bottom if you have sandy sides. Liners are probably OK but kids wading and swimming can make them kinda problematical. You might get in touch with your local NRCS agency. Those guys are good. If you can get more than 5 ft. deep, you will never regret it.

You guys are the greatest! Thanks so much for the insight. I was kinda flying blind. And I would love to get Mark McDonald's contact info if you have it. If he is in Midland and sells liners I bet we can work something out. Thanks again to everyone for the info.

One thing to keep in mind, fedagent.

Ponds that use supplemental well water (such as mine) are notoriously clean during the summer when the well may be your only water source. If you combine this with a depth of only five feet, and a clay substrate, you will be in for a major fight when it comes to rooted vegetation. It's even possible that you will have rooted vegetation over 100% of your surface. If you calculate the money and time you would need to invest in vegetation control, this may justify your additional cost to deepen the pond. I have several really tiny ponds and the extra money invested in depth has been well worth it.

Fedagent,

Check your PM for an e-mail address.

Sound what depth would be good to cut down vegetation chances? Thank you somuch for insight. Not something I knew about at all or considered.

Plants need three things to grow. Nutrients, substrate and sunlight. If you have all three you'll have to fight for your life to stop plant growth.

Sunlight in a shallow pond can only be inhibited with suspended sediment, phytoplankton (single celled algae) or dyes. I don't consider any of these particularly desirable.

Clay makes a great substrate for plant growth, so the only way to slow or inhibit rooted plants is a liner. Something to consider, but certainly not a panacea.

Nutrients will be tough to control, in particular with a catfish pond. Catfish are usually in need of artificial feed in order to produce any appreciable biomass. You can limit nutrients by not feeding, putting in fewer fish, or moving more water through the system. The latter is a possibility.

IMHO, you are left with a simple equation...deepen the pond to limit sunlight penetration to the deepest areas, line the pond, or move water through. Any one, or combination of these factors will help. I'm not a big fan of continual chemical control. There are a few forum members, Ted Lea comes to mind, that are five hundred times more knowledgable than I in this respect and maybe they will chime in.

Don't despair, because this is a doable thing. I'm just trying to play devils advocate to spur some deep thinking as the project progresses.

Bruce

P.S.

I never really answered your question because the answer depends on sunlight penetration. If you can limit penetration by maintaining a modest algae bloom you might get by with eight feet or so. If you have no phytoplankton you could have rooted vegetation problems in even ten or twelve feet. Once again, rooted vegetation is not my forte, but for others like Ted, or Lusk, or Bill this is more down their alley.

Several thoughts about this thread. First, Mark McDonald lives in Boerne, near San Antonio. He was raised in Midland and has family there. Secondly, Big Lake will have more than 100 inches of evaporation during a 'normal' year. With hot weather and low humidity, don't be surprised to see your pond drop an inch every other day. When calculating your water needs, remember that one acre, one inch deep, is 27,000 gallons. Very important. Even if you have a well which can keep up the volume, the water will be mineral laden in that part of the world. As evaporation occurs, remember this...the only thing which leaves is water. The minerals stay behind. Over time, your pond can become heavily laden with natural minerals. The best advice to contend with this potential problem is to exchange water from time to time. Pump some out, then pump new water in. There's no reason you won't be able to raise fish. Plan to aerate, however.

Thanks guys! Do you have to aerate constantly? Or is it a cycle thing like my filter on my pool? I am looking I guess at about a 1/4 acre pond. I was thinking 8 ft deep and sloping up at one side so deer and wildlife can come up and drink with the deep part near the dam on the other end. So how many gallons would that be? How many wide/long is an acre pond?

An acre is 43,560 sq. ft. Think of a football field and you have approximately an acre. Liners are quite expensive and not wildlife proof.

Fedagent,

One acre foot of water (1 acre, 1 foot deep) is 325,900 gallons of water. If your pond will be 1/4 acre and have an average depth of 4 feet, it will have 325,900 gallons of water.

If it were a perfect square in shape, the dimensions would be 104.4 feet on each side.

wow. that is bigger than I thought! I may have to go with an 1/8th of an acre. There is a natural "draw" downhill from our windmill about 30 yards away. The draw sits in kinda of a bowl area on three sides that slope up. I noticed it collected water there during rains and when our windmill float was too high. So I figured if the bottom was dug out more with a dozer and a dam pushed up on the one end then we could fill it after sealing it somehow. My master plan anyways. But you know how plans go I am sure.

fedagent, I'm from Ozona my folks still live there. There are little or no ponds or lakes in that area of texas. All ranches use well water and a rock or concrete holding tank. Reason is top soil is about 2 or 3 inches deep and then solid lime stone. I use to work in the oil patch building well locations, any amout of depth usally took jack hammers and dynimite, and it doesn't rain very often. This might not be your case but could be. good luck