Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Green Building

We are finally about to be done with our house plans. There were a few times that we almost came to blows over the layout. Glad hubby figured out that I am a better shot than him and shut up.

Now we are on to figuring out what materials to use to build the house. We hired a local energy consultant and he is pushing SIPS or ICF's. Both cost a good bit more than stick built but supposedly you save so much on energy costs that it pays for itself in a few years.

Any of you folks have any advice on the most cost effective way to go? My head is spinning with way too much info and I don't see any huge benefit of one over the other.

The energy guy also encouraged us to add solar hot water and possibly geothermal heating fueled by the pond (If we dug it out to 20 ft deep. NOT!)

The house is going to be about 2800 sq. feet.

Anna, We looked at SIP built house here in Texas a couple of years ago and the cost wasn't that bad. I think the good part about them is not only do they save energy but they go up really fast. Solar hot water heaters can be fairly expensive. Have you looked at some of the on demand hot water heaters. My son has two of them and they work quite well if you can run them off of gas or propane. Good luck with your house

The solar is expensive but it actually pays for itself in about 4-6 years whereas according to consumer reports "Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models."

We also would have to bring in propane which costs considerably more than natural gas. I may just dump all this green technology and go for the old fashioned standard. It seems like it costs three times as much to do anything remotely earth friendly. It's frustrating.

Anna:

If you decide to go with Propane, check the options of renting the tank(s) vs. buying them. Around here, if you rent the tank, you are at the mercy of the place that you rented it from to get your propane. If you own your own tanks you can call around to find the lowest price and have them deliver.

My parents bought two 1,000 gallon porpane tanks. That way they can fill up once a year (usually late summer) when the propane price is the lowest. Up here, they have summer and winter rates.......

Propane is over $2 per gallon in rural Mississippi, down from 2.50 last winter. With only a gas hot water heater and part time use, the cost is pretty staggering compared to natural gas.
But, finally getting electric down to 11 cents from 16 cents, here in Houston due to deregulation and competition, now it has escalated to 16 cents in Miss., where we now spend a lot of time.
It is monopolized there.
Anna is SO correct, go green, go broke unless you and the equipment last at least 30 yrs. without repairs.

Anna,
I have similar units to Heybud's son, I think, ours are about $50 to $150 dollars each, depending on the kw rating. Do an internet search for them, German and Japanese manufacturers both make good stuff, not just in the US and look for 220v. US units are huge, all you want is a heater at each location, small, quick and inexpensive. Then mate that with a solar water heating system. In summer you will not need the tankless heater or if you do it will be at a minimum and in the winter when the solar is struggling the tankless will be your best friend. Bath tub is the biggest obstacle for the instant heaters.

Essup thanks for the info. You are right. Owning the tank will keep the gas company from holding you hostage.

Burgermeister you are right. I think I am going to throw in the towel with most of what I had wanted to do. When you are working within a finite budget, some things always end up getting scrapped. I think we are going to stick build it and insulate as well as possible and hope for the best.

Rad that is a great idea! I will definitely look into those. Why does it make a difference to have the 220v?

Anna,
The 220v heats faster, allowing a smaller tank in the heater, a smaller, cheaper heater, our tanks are less than a pint in capacity. All of our shower heaters are wall mounted and have the on/off switch and temperature control on the unit, which allows for a single water line to each. Because of my design I was able to use one on demand unit to supply hot water to both the bathroom and kitchen sinks. For those I used the faucets to regulate temps, again only one line to the unit.

If you are going to stick build you might want to look at some Australian housing/building/design sites, lots of useful info. Usable design ideas and the like. The Google International search engine helps get you there.

Anna:

I installed a whole house tankless heater a year ago and the only drawback that I've found is that there is a minimum water flow that is required to turn the heater on, so if you want to trickle hot water it won't work. On the plus side, I never run out of hot water if the flow is enough. Between that and the fireplace insert that I installed last year I cut my natural gas and electric bill by 1/2 to 2/3rds vs. last year. My hot water heater was made in 1963 by Rheem and I replaced it with a Bosch unit. The heater was on sale for slightly more than $800.00 but the thing that really got me was the installation kit for the air intake and exhaust - a bit over $200.00, all for what I think cost <$50.00 in material.

The only other down side was that the heater made me realize that the water supply pipes in the house are corroded internally and I need to re-plumb the whole house. I'm switching to Pex and all I need to get are the manifolds.