Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Ponds and Crappie

I have read enough to know most people's thoughts on stocking Crappie in a midwest pond 2.5 acres in size but I have been considering it for this reason. I believe I have lost all my bass in my pond as of the spring of 2007. My bass never successfully spawned due to the amount of water coming in during spring thunderstorms, and believe the nests were covered in silt or became deeper than life supporting sun???. Pond is 57 yrs old and 18' deep, spring and tile fed with several acres of natural drainage from farm fields and the stupid neighbor doesn't leave a buffer strip on two different locations, (have offered to seed it, no luck). So, I am considering crappie as a preditor for the bluegill as they are over stocked at this time with no bass for 1 year now. I can and probably will stock some bass because they're fun to catch but have to believe the same fate will follw them if or until I can justify an aeration system.

Will I be a sorry pond owner if I take the step or will I be supprised at how much fun having crappie in a pond could be??

Thank you for your comments. I'll try to answer questions today but will be busy for a while and away from the PC tomorrow.

Thanks!
FH

Fishhead -- I think the real mystery here is why the bluegill will reproduce, but the largemouth bass won't. In central Iowa, why would that happen? Let's have the forum folks discuss that. Is the pond water muddy? Any submergent aquatic plants (not the cattails, but the rooted, underwater plants)?

I'll give more information Thur., I am away from the PC tomorrow but will give that + any other information needed to analyze my situation.

Thanks!

FH

An extremely over abundant bluegill population can suppress bass reproduction, but I cannot recall a situation where the bass became extirpated from a pond, but I suppose it could happen. I don't know if crappie are they answer to this problem though? Does your pond stay perpetually muddy, are there just bluegills and bass in there or are there other species present?

Hi Fishhead,

18' is awfully deep, and I guess lots of things can happen in those depths that can affect the entire pond.

I don't have the answers to anything except catching crappie. We have a 3 year old pond, and catch crappie that are over 11". We find it's just as much fun as catching bass. In a pond that's smaller than 5 acres, it's pretty easy to control them if they should have a big spawn. My wife could probably catch every one of them if I would let her. If you don't have time to make hook and line population adjustments, they could become a problem.

In a "Pond Boss" educated explanation here's what I think is happening. The pond sets in a ditch with trees surrounding 80% of it, it is long, probably 275 yds and 65 - 70 yds wide at the dam. It points east/west but trees keep it from letting the pond get natural wave aeration. The trees drop the leaves every fall and dead trees fall into it (great cover!). The pond has coontail for submerged vegetation and some filamentous algae growing. I have cut some trees but the ditch banks are a good 20 feet higher than the surface on the south and 10-15 feet on the north. In the winter the snow drops in and sets due to the high south bank prohibiting the sun from reaching it. The ice never freezes clear and though I clear some snow in areas it will never get good phytoplankton growth (I think that’s right?). So I think my fish basically suffocate in the winter.

1998 I discovered the property and began dealing to purchase the property; it was loaded with GSF and some LMB. In 1999 I stocked, and bought the property (in that order, due to the pond freezing out (didn't know why). . In 2001 I applied for another stocking from IADNR (LMB, BG, & CC) and stocked again as the pond loaded up with algae, coontail, duckweed, and watermeal. I think the fish went into winter stressed because the pond stopped overflowing in summer of 2000 due to a drought that summer. I was surprised to see no fish that spring. Anyway, the next 6 years seemed to go well although the fall of 2001 I saw some bass and BG die off from a cold October rain, I think it turned the water over and I think poisoned the fish??

In the spring the water after ice out is somewhat turbid but clears it well if no gully washer rains come in. It will clear so you can see about 5ft. I watched the bass build, spawn, and tend to nests for 3 years but every spring we would get torrential downpours and raise the level sometimes 3-4 ft. This clouds up the water and suffocates the eggs (I believe). The pond has an emergency spillway about 3 feet above pool level and I have seen it go over 4 or 5 times, most likely taking some fish. Now, I tried fishing several times and watched constantly last summer after finding several big bass nice BG and a couple giant catfish floating dead under the ice in spring 2008 but never caught or saw anything but BG. they have spawned twice and will spawn a third time this spring with no, or very little predator fish.

My final thoughts are that if I put crappie in at least some of them will be able to survive and keep the BG in check. If and when I decide to bottom aerate I could face a problem but if it's out of control I think I can run the aeration system 24-7 to begin with and kill it off that way. I know this sounds crazy but honestly I cant spend the money right now and to buy the equipment which I think will take around $1300 to get started.

I spilled all I know and every factor so my question is rather adding crappie is a REAL stupid idea or a viable option in my case. As I said before I know it's not what most pond managers see as a good idea but every fishery is not like this one.

In a nut shell I think my problem circulates around the waters DO content. I can float in a life jacket and feel the thermocline or at least the cold water line at my feet, I am 6'.

Thanks again for all opinions!

Crappie are no more tolerant of low DO than are bass... So they will die as well. It sounds like you need to invest in aeration.

Are bluegill more tolerant of low DO than LMB or Crappie?

IMO a bluegill+crappie pond is going to be a mess of stunted 5" fish.

A lot of ponds in Iowa in 2000 winterkilled, many of them for the first time. 2008 was also particularly bad, both years had deep snow that stayed too long. You may not see another winter kill for a while. I would stock LMB and hope for good weather.

But since it is likely you will get more winter kills without aeration you could think about developing a put-and-take fishery after the next winterkill. Good candidates for that would be hybrid bluegill (HBG) or channel catfish. Both are easily attainable and relatively cheap. They grow pretty quickly and all you have to do is replace harvested fish with stocked fish. Neither normally requires a predator fish to keep their population in check.

Or (this is outside the box thinking) you could stock fish that are tolerant to low DO and have higher likelihood of surviving bad winters. Bullheads are extremely tolerant of low DO, but not many people like fishing for them, except my grandma. Bullheads would also stunt without some sort of predator or a lot of harvest.

Fishhead -- Bob Lusk always says to manage the habitat first. If you can afford an aeration system, I sure would do it. What is the value of a 2.5 acre pond? That is a darn good size pond, and with high water quality, what a resource it would be.

Now my 2 cents worth. I agree that crappies won't control bluegill. Also, crappies winterkill rather easily, too. If you decide to aerate, get the LMB established. Then, we can talk about crappies. If you have the habitat, and your coontail says you do, then you'll get a high density LMB population. Not everyone will agree here, but at that point, you'll have enough LMB to control reproduction by both bluegill and black crappie, and you can produce 8-10 inch bluegills and 10-12 inch black crappies (few LMB will exceed 15 inches, but in a 2.5 acre pond, a few will always slip through the bottleneck to larger sizes).

Couldn't have said it better Dave...

The only instance I know of where LMB will not spawn successfully is with a lot of crowded lepomis (BG , GSF etc). They will spawn in very bad conditions even worse than BG and a lot worse than Crappie. Muddy water , floods , cold spells , you name it. If one spawn gets wiped out they will try again. If you think about all the places they inhabit they have to be very adaptable.

I agree with Eric's assessment, LMB are very adaptable and rarely do all the fish spawn at the same time. So if there is a flood event or other natural event that may affect a spawn's success, there are fish that spawned before and after that event which should lead to some success...

Is it possible to cut down some trees to facilitate some wind hitting the pond, and maybe some sunlight hitting it in the winter?

It sounds like you might have electricity at the pond?

Perhaps some type of horizontal water mover like Dwight uses could help?

You guys are great! I guess I have been talked out of the crappie again for now. I thought maybe it would be a viable option since the bass seemed to be most vulnerable during the winter.

The LMB spawning issue may have been the ratio of BG to LMB. As I said earlier I lost some to a cold rain the year they were stocked but hoped the first spawn would generate a revitalized predator base, however it may have been so far out of balance at that time it was destined to fail with the BG attacking the few nests I had. I do recall the bass frantically attempting to guard the nest when I would watch them but the high water timing had me thinking that was the only problem.

I do have elec lines run next to the pond now so that is the future plans, they need terminated in the panel but it is a small task compared to running the underground.

My long term goal remains, adding the aeration system is my best option and it will eventually happen. Short term I will buy some LMB to stock for a balance of predator to prey ratio so I can avoid stunting the BG.

Thanks again for all the input this is a great resource.