Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? When is is better to just drain?

Hi,

I am a new member that purchased a house last year that has a 5/8 acre pond behind the house.

There a bunch of oak trees on the property and a lot of muck is in on the bottom of this pond.

I purchased and installed a double aeration system last spring from a member here, Ted lea.

I just this weekend dug out mounds and mounds of cat tails and muck around the edges.

This pond was completely covered with duckweed and watermeal last year.

Maximum depth is around 14' with an average depth of around 7'

I have read about the muck removal through pumping but don't know if it is really effective or not. Any more insight on this?

At what point would it be better to just drain the pond, at least to a level to allow for some muck removal and weed control around the edges versus just chemically treat it but not really address the problem of excess muck.

Where can I find someone in Ohio that I can contract to advise and assist me with this project.

I appreciate you input.

Thanks

Howdy, Lundy, and welcome to the forum.

We're gonna do better than just find you advice from Ohio. We're gonna get you experience, advice, and opinions from all around the country (and that's not counting the Canadians, the Thai guys, and the Yemenis {Yemenites???} ).

How happy are you with the fish populations in the pond? Are there any species (common carp, bullheads, etc.) in it that you would really rather get rid of? That's one more thing to consider when you are contemplating possibly draining and renovating; if you decided to totally drain and rework for muck removal, it would allow a fresh start with fish stocking. OTOH if the fish present are suitable, that is a level of effort that might not be required.

IIRC muck removal via pumping is about the most expensive way to get the stuff out, and is used as kind of a last resort where heavy equipment can't be brought pond-side due to conditions like a whole bunch of houses ringing the pond that block access.

Are the 7' and 14' depth figures reported from when the pond was constructed (and are now less due to muck accumulation), or are they actual soundings with the muck in place? If the former, due you know the actual depths now? If the latter, well, those are pretty decent depths IMHO for a 5/8 acre pond - if that is the case, I would not contemplate any drastic measures.

Ted's aeration system will undoubtedly help with muck control. Depending on how much of it is organic (sounds like a lot, with all the trees and with the high fertility that seems evident), it will probably reduce muck levels over time if operated per instructions.

If I were in your position, I would most likely look at using a trackhoe with a long reach to clean out the cattail pockets nears shore and remove the muck for as far out as it can reach. Then run that aerator as Ted recommends to control the remaining muck as much as possible without more invasive measures (drain & total renovation).

Do you have room on the property to spread the muck you remove from the pond? You don't want to have to put it too thick anywhere - per Otto, it NEVER dries out on the bottom if more than 1 - 1.5 feet thick.

P.S. We have lots of people with duckweed experience, but (fortunately for me) I am not one of them

Hi Lundy,
It would be great if you could mark a few locations and measure the depth of the muck this spring, run the aeration system 24/7 and remeasure the depth of the muck in the fall. You should see some reduction and it would be nice to have someone unbiased doing the research. Just a thought ~ I don't think you should drain and dredge - you still have some decent water depth even with the muck on the bottom.

Welcome Lundy:
How lucky you are to have found this site! You will get your pond just the way you want it by following the advice of all the experts who visit this site and contribute to the PondBoss magazine. Hope you stick around and get the magazine and check out the Podcast.
Before you know it you will be helping others solve similar problems.

Thanks for the replies,

The depths previously mentioned are the depths now.

The fish population is OK with some help needed to target some growth for the bluegill and bass. There are a limited number of 10-12" black crappie, a few channel cats and 1 30+ lb common carp that someone caught elsewhere and put in the pond. No grass carp.

Sue, I am going out in the boat today for some detailed depth of water and muck mapping. I will compare this to the same process this fall. I will be adding bacteria and running the aerators 24/7. I will let everyone know what I find.

I am sure I will have a bunch more questions as spring progresses.

Thanks again.


Started the removal of cat tails this weekend. What a mess!!

What i couldn't get to with the equipment will now have to be taken care of by hand and with chemicals. I have a bunch around the island that I will need to remove by hand.

Before I started Sunday morning, nice clear water





The aftermath, muddy water! The bass sure were feeding heavy as I was digging. They were just outside the scoop eating stuff as it avoided the bucket.





The island mess of cattails

Nice setting. IMO, not TOO many oak trees - just right.

Nice looking pond!

Wow, really nice looking place, and unlike me on urban Stepfordville Subdivision Lake, you can control it yourself!!!!!
Lucky Lundy................

LOL! We have a few of those around here, too.

Which one of the two authorized shades of blonde is your hair?

Not to worry about the muddy water. It will settle back to previous clarity in a day or 2.

Oak leaves are most likely the source of most of the muck, and can also cause acidity and stained water.


If you're not already feeding, doing so will give you a healthier fish population, and more carrying capacity.

Good luck!

I went around the pond yesterday and took some depth and muck readings in 25 to 3o locations.

The main basin, 2/3 of the length, of the pond is 13' deep to the top of the muck. The muck is 12" -18", with the 18" being where I would expect it on the windward side where all of the leaves end up.

The muck on the other side of the pond is 4-8".

Behind the island there is 6' of water on top of 2-1/2 ft of muck!

I used two 10' lengths of 1/2" conduit. I applied 36" of adhesive white velco strips to the lower conduit. I also marked the conduit every 1 foot with black marker. It was very easy to get a muck depth reading. The muck would stick to the velco. A quick swish in the water and it was ready for the next reading.

So, does anyone have any real experience with adding bacteria and achieving any kind of measurable results or am I going to be the test case? Is this too much muck to expect to ever get rid off other than trough mechanical methods?

I was happy to find a lot of rocky and gravel areas under the muck in many areas of the pond.

Thanks

Oh Boy Lundy:
You said the magic word!!!!! B A C T E R I A ................
Long, long story here. My Girilfriend LakeChair and I had to have a coup and take on our entire subdivision board and throw the bad guys out, and the bad guy lake treatment company out too!
We have worked so hard to get The Lake Treatment Guys to die for in here - they recommend a certain type of bacteria for my algae scum pond lake (once beautiful) and some people on this board think it is "snakeoil." However, our cute, ethical, hard working,lake guys have some major success stories under their belts with some newer type stuff. Work this hard to get them in (killed ourselves) and then "roadblock." Not to worry, I never give up, ever. It is like getting a top notch accountant and then not taking the deductions he wants you to take.
My hair is kind of blonde, but I don't fit the Stepfordville profile, at all, in fact I don't know if it is Cecil or me who gets in more trouble....

Wiser words have never been spoken on Pond Boss. These words should be coverted to 26 point type, bolded, converted to italics, colored bright red and then archived for eternal history.

To state that the verdict is still out on the efficacy of bacterial muck control would be accurate, IMHO.


I could do that, but somehow I feel it is going to slip my mind. (rolleyes)

Jeff,I can assure you I ALWAYS take your posts as gospel.

Lundy:
Rock & gravel sounds good. Our problem isn't muck, it is nutrients and planktonic algae. We did just ban Phosphorus, and the storm drains have been cleaned, and I am going to cry for the last time on this lake as we got our permits for the total fish kill. Our Lake Treatment Boys of Summer are out here today, we have them testing all our lakes, plus for salinity to compare non storm drain lakes, to ours which has the salted road drain. Their data would hold up in court, unlike ours. Things are really really looking up, this will be #6 troublesome year, that is such a long time. LAKECHAIR GIRLFRIEND AND I HAVE OFFICIALLY DECLARED THIS "OUR SUMMER OF FUN." We deserve it.

Well, a lot of work later we are getter closer to getting the pond in better shape. There is still quite a bit to do but it is rewarding to see progress.

At least 99% of the cattails are gone. I have some remaining that I will need to manually remove or chemically kill.

The dormant watermeal was stirred up with all of the digging and started to green up and grow (multiply) this past weekend. Just waiting on the spring rains to stop to add the Sonar to fix that problem.

On a positive note we had very little algae this year as compared to last year. I don't know if the aerators added last year effected this or not but I'm glad it is better.

Another couple of weeks and I can complete the island bridge and stone work and have some of the grass growing back in. I hope.

The island last year


The island now



The upper end before


After



Looking better

Lundy, what do you use the island for?

The island has no real design purpose. It was there when I purchased the property. If I were building a new pond from scratch it would not have an island!!! It added a ton of cost to the cleanup. It took 100tons of stone and some steel plate rental to build a temporary bridge to the island to get the backhoe and bobcat out to the island.



There is 8 fow water behind the island and it drops into 15ft on the front side very quickly.

We are just going to grow some grass and put a picnic table on it for family fishing

Beautiful Lundy, man you have done a lot of work. I like the island, put a couple of chairs and a table out there, maybe a gazebo.

I like THE SUMMER OF FUN. Make sure you have that

Just keep moving forward a little at a time

Completed this project this past weekend.

What I had



What I built

Very well done.

I agree - nice job !

That is sweet! Very professional looking work...