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Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
#143149 01/02/09 12:29 AM
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We caught these this afternoon, one of them looked like a GSF, while the other two look like some sort of cross. We had lots of GSF in the 1 yr old pond when we stocked the CNBG in Oct 07. They have now been in the pond together for about 14 months. So do I have hybrids, or are these just GSF ?

Pure GSF


Hybrid BG1 ?


Hybrid BG2 ? (9 inches 14 oz)



Thanks,

Darryl
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
archer #143161 01/02/09 08:31 AM
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They look like straight GSF to me - darn nice straight GSF.

JHAP will no doubt be contacting you about your dues for the Green Sunfish Association; the money goes toward Deathstar operating expenses, member activity fees, and the GSFA's brussels sprouts eradication effort.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Theo Gallus #143165 01/02/09 09:00 AM
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Darryl,

Same here. Look like straight Green sunfish to me too. A little dark maybe but that may be due to other factors. That's a big one for a green sunfish! One can tell they are growing fast due to the small fin sizes.

If you could send me two I'd be glad to mount one up for free for you to cast another one up of the same size for the Pond Boss Jesse West Endowment fund auction next year!

I've done a bluegill for the first auction here and will finish up a large redear (shellcracker) soon for the last show that will be auctioned off on the website. The next fish I want to do for the next Pond Boss convention is a green sunfish, but I'm not sure I can get a decent sized specimen up here to cast. I prefer to do reproductions for the auction. The casting would be done by a specialist in Wisconsin but I do the painting.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/02/09 09:16 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Cecil Baird1 #143171 01/02/09 10:06 AM
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I go straight GSF. Very nice fish. JHAP will be at your pond shortly!

Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
AaronM #143175 01/02/09 10:36 AM
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 Originally Posted By: AaronM
JHAP will be at your pond shortly!

Have cupcakes ready.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Theo Gallus #143176 01/02/09 10:37 AM
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What is the history of the stocking of the pond ? Any creeks that get into the pond?

I would say mostly GSF but would not bet on them being 100% as the fish genetics folks in the south at least report that it is very hard to find pure GSF. No hatchery ( out of about 25 that I know in the south - TX included) sells GSF.

See this thread for lots of pics and info.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459#Post14459
















Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
ewest #143179 01/02/09 10:50 AM
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Although I'm definately no expert, I would have said hybrid rather than pure GSF. The GSF that DIED and I have tend to be slightly more elongated, have a vivid yellow coloring at the bottom of the fish, and ususally have a pronounced black spot at the back of the dorsal and rump (highly scientific technical term) fin. The fish above seem too roundish to be pure GSF to me. Here's not such a great photo of the GSF that I catch in my pond.






JHAP
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Theo Gallus #143180 01/02/09 10:58 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
JHAP will no doubt be contacting you about your dues for the Green Sunfish Association; the money goes toward Deathstar operating expenses, member activity fees, and the GSFA's brussels sprouts eradication effort.


No worries Archer, unlike BISA, the GSA does not collect dues from it's membership. We use the time honored traditions of extortion, money laundering, and kidnap for ransom in order to raise money for the GSA.



Oh and by the way sometimes kidnap for ransom backfires on you. We kidnapped TomG and demanded a ransom from his wife. We held him for two weeks all the while his wife refused to pay a ransom unless he promised in writing to finish some of his house projects. We then offered to give him back, she refused. Finally we had to pay her $100 to take TomG back as the beer budget had gone through the roof. Between the $100 give-back fee and the beer costs we lost a lot of money on that whole deal. We're just real glad we didn't kidnap Sunil.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143187 01/02/09 11:21 AM
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My first impression is much like JHAP's. There doesn't seem to be nearly enough yellow on the fins (none in the second pic) to be pure GSF but maybe they look different in Texas.




"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen W. Hawking
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Ryan Freeze #143197 01/02/09 11:47 AM
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Just remember guys color is a poor way to identify a fish by itself. Fish taxonomists have a saying (which I can't remember) about the foolishness of using color to identify a fish. One must use other methods in conjunction WITH any coloring.

Diet, water color, bottom strata color, water temperature, time of year, and health can all have an effect on the coloration of the fish along with local genetics of the species.

No offense meant!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/02/09 06:29 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Cecil Baird1 #143201 01/02/09 12:02 PM
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No offense taken Cecil. It's just that these two fish don't look very similar to me. But once again I'm an amature at this stuff.

DIED's GSF


GSF? Above



JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143207 01/02/09 01:10 PM
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That's because California is another planet! Everything looks different there!

Even the people are a little weird! \:\/

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/02/09 01:11 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143214 01/02/09 02:15 PM
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We have no creeks nearby, and the pond sides are elevated 2 ft above natural ground to get more depth. The pond was dug in Feb 2006, then stocked in Oct 07 with CNBG, RES, and FH minnows. We caught some 6-7 inch GSF by Nov 2007, and Todd Overton thoerized that they probably got a good number of the 1-3 in stockers, so we put in some 4-5 inch CNGB in Dec 2007. We have taken out over 200 GSF since then. None of them looked like the ones at the top of this post. They all were much more sleek, yellow bellies, colorful fins, and the sides seem to have longer lateral striping. The top of the head and jaw bottom seem similar to CNBG.

I did not know about the auction. If we catch another one I will let you know. I guess they get this big due to AQMX 600 everyday.


Thanks,

Darryl
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Cecil Baird1 #143216 01/02/09 02:18 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
That's because California is another planet! Everything looks different there!

Even the people are a little weird! \:\/


I would protest this statement, demand a retraction, require an apology, and request for a moderators immediate action.... if only it were a lie. Stupid, stupid truth.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143217 01/02/09 02:21 PM
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Well whatever they are the look like they are fun to catch Archer.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143220 01/02/09 02:29 PM
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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
No offense taken Cecil. It's just that these two fish don't look very similar to me. But once again I'm an amature at this stuff.



I agree with Cecil that color can be deceiving. However, this fish sure does show a lot of that pinkish and purplish color on its body that is so common in a pure CNBG. It even has a bit of a hump on the head that is charactoristic of BG and not GSF. The mouth is bigger than a typical BG, but seems slightly smaller than a pure GSF.



12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, CC, WB, HSB, BCP, WCP, GSH.
White Brook Farm
http://www.tilapiasource.com
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Weissguy #143240 01/02/09 06:31 PM
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I've seen that purple color in hybrid bluegill: Green sunfish X northern bluegill

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/03/09 08:35 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Cecil Baird1 #143263 01/02/09 09:59 PM
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Of Darryl's first 3 photos, I think the top fish is a female and the lower 2 fish are male - all GSF. Colors are subdued likely due to winter phase coloration and or water color as variables mentioned by Cecil.

In JAHP's post of DIED's fish it is a male GSF while I think the lower fish of Darryl's is a female. Each photo was very likely taken in a different season - 1st spring - early summer, latter winter.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/02/09 10:03 PM.

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Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Bill Cody #143278 01/03/09 02:42 AM
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Just personal opinion here, but I think they all look like pure GSF. They all look identical to fish we see around here in turbid waters. I'm sure there are some regional morphological and coloration variations.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Bruce Condello #143291 01/03/09 08:23 AM
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Well there ya have it. They must be GSF then. A consensus between Theo, Commander Cody, and Bruce Blue Gill Condello is good enough for me. I stand detected, inspected, corrected, rejected, and neglected before you. Oh the humiliation.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143293 01/03/09 08:26 AM
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JHAP, one must remember there is considerable variation in the appearance of any species wrt sex, age, etc. between locations.

For example, think people in Hollywood vs. the rest of humanity.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Theo Gallus #143297 01/03/09 08:39 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
JHAP, one must remember there is considerable variation in the appearance of any species wrt sex, age, etc. between locations. For example, think people in Hollywood vs. the rest of humanity.


Yep, I should have kept that in mind Theo.

I've heard that unless you actually inspect their gametes it is often very difficult to properly determine the sex of certain sunfish.

In many ways people that live in Hollywood are very similar to sunfish.

I think that is all I can say about that without getting moderated.



JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143299 01/03/09 08:44 AM
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Hey I wonder if pond owners in California have fish with silicone implants and inject botox in their cheeks? I hear Anold their governor used to use male hormones to beef up.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
Cecil Baird1 #143301 01/03/09 08:55 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Hey I wonder if pond owners in California have fish with silicone implants and inject botox in their cheeks?


Any you thought you were just being funny, from the New York Times....

Fish diagnostics range from a basic exam ($40), blood work ($60) and X-rays ($55) to the advanced: ultrasound ($175), CAT scans ($250). Veterinarians tube-feed fish. They give fish enemas, fix broken bones with plates and screws, remove impacted eggs, treat scoliosis and even do fish plastic surgery -- anything from glass-eye implantation to ''surgical pattern improvement,'' with scale transplantation, scale tattooing or unsightly-scale removal.

New York Times "Fixing Nemo"


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Re: Are these GSF or some sort of Hybrid ?
jeffhasapond #143314 01/03/09 09:28 AM
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And to think, all I can do for those crippling fish problems is add two fillets to the dinner menu.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i582.photobucket.com]
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