Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking HSB in Florida...

Ok I posted a topic about this yesterday but it seems it was erased...

So has anybody stocked HSB in the southern united states with sucess? I was on kens fish farm's website and they said that their hybrid stripers can take tempertures up to 90 degress. Is this true? I thought that was rather weird compared to what I have read about them. HSB are stocked in a reservoir thats only a few miles from me. So I know they can survive centrel floridas tempertures I am not sure to what extent. My pond is going to be 8 acres and I was planning on making it a largemouth bass fishery. However being an avid saltwater fisherman I find that I like HSB a lot more. So are there any special things I must do to prepare the lake? Deepwater? Aeration? What type of forage do they need?

Thanks.

GTS,

I wrote an extensive response and it was erased also. Did you get a chance to read it or should I try to re-create it?

Unfortantely I did not get a chance to read your post. I would appreciate it if you could attempt to re create it.

GTS,

First question, yes several of us in Texas have successfully stocked, raised, and harvested HSB. I'm one of them and will use my experience to try to answer your other questions and then address a concern which you touched on.

Deepwater? HSB prefer open water. As you know, their predecesors were open salt water predators and they do hang out in the deeper open waters of my pond. They prefer to ambush their forage in open water. They are a very fast swimming fish, in my judgement, much faster than LMB and they can best use this speed to their advantage in open water. If you have large open areas of water, your 8 foot depth should be fine, IMHO.

Aeration? Yes, I have aeration and I do believe it is very important with HSB, particularly in summer temps, to keep the DO as high as possible. More on temps later.

Forage? I have threadfin shad, gizzard shad, Tilapia, Gambusia, Fatheads and BG. Of these, the Tilapia, BG and gizzards contribute the most to the HSB, I believe. In a separate post, I cautioned you on overwintering Tilapia effects on LMB fry, buy of course, on HSB, you don't have to worry about that. I have witnessed HSB literally slaughter dozens (hundreds?) of Tilapia as the Tilapia approached death in the cooler temps, so I know they eat Tilapia. Much has been written about their appetite for gizzzard shad. I suspect they don't eat as many BG as long as shad and/or Tilapia are readily available.

The concern...summer temps. My concern would not be about the absolute value of the summer temps...we get as high or even higher water temps in East Texas as you do in central Florida. The temps are not a problem as long as DO is sufficient. The problem, or really concern is how you plan to utilize the HSB.

Let me explain...in my pond HSB are a "put and take" operation. I have definitely noticed that in summer when caught the HSB react very negatively to the stress. I do use fly fishing equipment and that contributes to the stress. The HSB fights with the heart of a champion. They never quit, unlike LMB. That's good of course, but in the summer on fly fishing equipment the HSB may very well not survive being caught. If you plan "catch and release", then you need to be careful about your tackle and not over stressing these wonderful fish. In my estimation, they fight so hard they will literally kill themselves when hooked. For me, except when I accidently hook one, it isn't a problem, because I'm "put and take". I do think it is a concern for "catch and release". I would be very interested in others chiming in with their thoughts on HSB vulnerability in high temps to survival after being hooked and released.

GTS, I've tried to address your questions but have been a bit long winded. I hope this information is useful to you. I love HSB, think they are just a terrific pond fish, and wish you the best with them if you decide to go that direction.

p.s. now is the best time to decide when your pond is free of large predators, you can stock small, cheap HSB instead of the larger more expensive versions which are required to survive LMB predation.

p.s.s if this response is also deleted that's it for me...it just takes too much time to have your post deleted. I'll go elsewhere.

Thanks for the info! Its good to know that they can take high temps.

Ok to be honest summertime is prime saltwater fishing in my area. Tarpon,snook,redfish,trout,snapper and spanish mackeral are in their prime this time of year. So to be honest I would not mind not fishing for them during the summer and simply let them stick out the high temps.

I am not sure as to what type of fishery I want I will have to think about that.

About forage is it possible that the tilapia will become sluggish once the water hits 60 degress? I know they wont die but will they become sluggish enough for the HSB to pick them off easier?

And which would you prefer? Threadfin shad or gizzard shad? Arent fully grown gizzards to large to be eaten by HSB? So wouldnt threadfins be a better chocie?

Nicely stated.

I am a HSB beginner, but I noticed they also are stressed substantially when water temps are below 50F. I lost about 3 this spring when catch and releasing in temps below 50. My water temps are now hitting 80+, so I am trying to avoid catching them.

I believe Bruce has posted in the past that they shouldn't be transferred in temps below 50. Well, he seems to know a little about HSB.

GTS,

Mozambique Tilapia, the only Tilapia we are allowed in Texas, begins to go dormant at about 63 degrees water temps. I've observed the picking off or more like slaughter between 55 and 60 degrees water temps. It isn't real precise...but the Tilapia become kind of disoriented and swim erratically and that really inspires the predator instint in LMB and HSB.

Relative to shad, I think both have a place. The threadfin initially and the gizzard two or preferably three years after the predators (either LMB or HSB or both) are stocked. The gizzards can get large, but are very controlable, at least in my pond, by larger LMB and HSB...thats why its important to wait on the gizzards.

NEDOC, I haven't observed any temp problems on the lower end but our winters are fairly mild. Last winter I still had HSB feeding artificially in the 50 to 55 degree range and showing no signs of stress at all.

p.s. GTS I love to Tarpon fish and bonefish and try for Permit (although I haven't been successful on them on the fly yet, but I will)

How many HSB do you have in your pond? How exactly do they behave? Can you see them attackign schools of shad?

If I were to stock them alone without LMB would I still need to stock bluegill along with shad?

Which would reccomend a put and take fishery or a catch and realese fishery?

GTS,

The questions get harder...

How many? I have a 3.5 to 4 acre pond with HSB and LMB and all the rest. In my approach, which remember is "put and take" I stock 30 to 50 HSB (preferably 8 inches, but usually 6 inches) each spring and each fall. I probably have on the order of 100 to 150 present now.

How do they behave? Much like a salt water fish. The feed in packs on whatever is available in their preferred area. They are amazingly fast, typical of a salt water fish. At feeding time, when the timer goes off on the Stren ADF, they put on a show, but generally they are very shy, nervous. On occasions, I have observed them in shallow water looking for food. Then they are "nervous nellies" darting, turning, constantly in motion. I love them. They are beautiful to observe.

Would you stock BG along with shad? Absolutely, not only for the forage diversity, but simply for the BG themselves. Nothing I enjoy more than catching big BG on the fly rod, nothing.

Put and Take vs catch and release? Man, you do ask tough questions. I do P&T on the HSB and C&R on the LMB (with a strict rule of removal of all LMB 12 inches or less after three years). This approach has been born out of necessity for me. LMB, as I mentioned earlier to you, in a small pond (especially Florida strain) have a catchability problem as they age. I can't say, i.e. I don't know if HSB would also develop the same catchability problem; I suspect they would, but in my case they don't get the chance. I wanted "on demand" action 24/7. I get it with HSB, plus I also still have the fun of a LMB fishery, which requires lots of patience. They are complementary, in my opinion. The LMB rule the shallows and the HSB rule the deeper open areas.

There are many different ways to approach your situation. The beauty, for those who are open minded, is that we have species options which will accomodate most any set of objectives for a pond. We simply need to consider our objectives, study the options and make the best choice. Those that do not include HSB in their options, are missing out on a great fish

GTS, After a few years of stocking I think a major water quality parameter to check is hardness/alkalinity. I have purchased HSB from two sources both of which have much higher alk than most SE ponds. We have had limited success stocking them. Meadowlark, don't most TX ponds have good alkalinity? I feel strongly about this and will not sell another hybrid to my client unless I find a source that has similiar alk b/c I think many die due to drastic water quality change.

BTW one source is in Gainesville Florida as his fish seem to handle the heat just fine.

Greg,

Good point! I don't know about most Texas Ponds, but mine are fine. In fact, Todd Overton (my fish supplier) very carefully checked my alk. to make sure it matched what the HSB came from...before releasing them.

So in a put and take fishery you simply take a certain amount of fish each year and then you stock more each spring? That makes sense I guess.

OK, great! Now I am all fired up to stock some HSB. I noticed that you said you stock them in spring and fall, is there a better time to introduce them to your pond? I have a approx 2 acre pond with LMB, BG, and CC which were stocked about 3 years ago. My concern is letting these HSB loose and watching the LMB devour them. Any suggestions for the best time of year to get them started?

Thanks

Scott, anything less than 8-10 inch HSB stockers, with adult LMB in your pond, will just be expensive fish food.

If you cannot find a supplier in your area, you might try to raise them in a "grow-out" pond, as some of us are presently doing.

Todd Overton of Overton Fisheries is presently "growing out" HSB for fall delivery, but too far away for you most likely.
Check with Greg Grimes - he may be able to help.

We probably had less than 20% HSB survival when stocking 3-5 inchers - expensive lesson learned!

George Glazener
N.E. Texas 1/4 and 2 acre ponds.

George I agree less than 6 inches has a difficult chance of making it past the bass predation. I might have a source this fall and might even start growing out some ourselves.

Thanks Greg, I may contact you this fall.

Its great to live in a free country...we take so much for granted...for example...

Several of us in Texas have a need for a large (greater than 8 inches) HSB. Now there is one supplier stepping up to that need, Todd Overton. There will probably be others if the demand is there. Sounds like Greg is also looking to fill that market in his area.

What a great country, never take it for granted!