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One pond will be about 7 acres and the other would be somewhere between 1/5 and 1/2 acre. The surface of the smaller pond is 5 or 6 feet higher in elevation than the big pond surface. The ponds would be 300-400 feet apart. Would it be practical to maintain the water level of the small pond by pumping it from the larger pond? Currently the nearest electricity is 1000 feet from the ponds.

Clay is being harvested for Cindy's big pond from the adjacent field. While digging the clay we found springs and so we're considering creating this small pond from the clay pit. The problem is that we don't know if the springs will be enough to keep the little pond full. The original plan was to fill the clay pit with material from the big pond once the core was completed. If we choose to build the small pond and there isn't sufficient water then filling it in later will be very expensive. The safe thing to do is fill it in now, but the springs look promising and who wouldn't want an extra little pond?

The little pond would be fairly high in elevation and would have almost no watershed. Because of the grade it will be an eyesore if it doesn't stay fairly full. If we knew we could keep the little pond full using water from the big one for a reasonable cost it would make the decision easier.

There is no extra cost for building the small pond because it eliminates the need to fill in the clay pit which would take about a week to do.

This photo is for scale and was taken 7/31. I'm guessing the pit is about 16 feet deep.


Here's the pit on 8/16. More clay had been harvested and the drop at the right rear corner from the grade to the water was 10-12 feet in this photo. You can see the larger pond through the gap in the trees.


This shot is a few weeks after tropical storm Fay left about 15 inches of rain. There are 3-4 acres of watershed from the cotton field that helped fill the pond and I suppose also supplied the fertilizer to create this algae bloom. The water depth was about 14 feet. Above this water level the soil changes from clay to sand.


If we build this pond then we will eliminate any runoff from the field. When these photos were taken the core was only half finished so a lot more clay is being taken from the pit. At this point the contractor is forming slopes as he digs in case we decide to build the little pond.





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 Originally Posted By: GW
One pond will be about 7 acres and the other would be somewhere between 1/5 and 1/2 acre. The surface of the smaller pond is 5 or 6 feet higher in elevation than the big pond surface. The ponds would be 300-400 feet apart. Would it be practical to maintain the water level of the small pond by pumping it from the larger pond? Currently the nearest electricity is 1000 feet from the ponds.

if the small pond has a steady influx of groundwater, maybe the small pond could help keep the big pond topped off?

Clay is being harvested for Cindy's big pond from the adjacent field. While digging the clay we found springs (i think this might be groundwater as opposed to springs, but this could just be semanitcs, if springs they have positive pressure and with groundwater it would be the water table at equilibrium....build a pond with hopes of filling above level of groundwater, and it could reverse on itself and only stay at the static groundwater level (i.e. never fill) and so we're considering creating this small pond from the clay pit. The problem is that we don't know if the springs will be enough to keep the little pond full. (how long will the equipment be on-site? if you get a dry run in the weather, you should be able to guage water levels and make a determination before equipment leaves as to whether or not it will stay full and only lose by evaporation) The original plan was to fill the clay pit with material from the big pond once the core was completed. If we choose to build the small pond and there isn't sufficient water then filling it in later will be very expensive. That safe thing to do is fill it in now, but the springs look promising and who wouldn't want an extra little pond?

The little pond would be fairly high in elevation and would have almost no watershed. Because of the grade it will be an eyesore if it doesn't stay fairly full. If we knew we could keep the little pond full using water from the big one for a reasonable cost it would make the decision easier. (pumping water is expensive, and as mentioned above, you need to first be able to guage whether or not its losing via groundwater pathways)

There is no extra cost for building the small pond because it eliminates the need to fill in the clay pit which would take about a week to do.

This photo is for scale and was taken 7/31. I'm guessing the pit is about 16 feet deep.


Here's the pit on 8/16. More clay had been harvested and the drop at the right rear corner from the grade to the water was 10-12 feet in this photo. You can see the larger pond through the gap in the trees.


This shot is a few weeks after tropical storm Fay left about 15 inches of rain. There are 3-4 acres of watershed from the cotton field that helped fill the pond and I suppose also supplied the fertilizer to create this algae bloom. The water depth was about 14 feet. Above this water level the soil changes from clay to sand.


(i'm jealous.....thats beautiful, i hope it holds. my suspicion though is you dug to groundwater level, go any deeper and you risk breaking into a porous layer that you can lose water to)

If we build this pond then we will eliminate any runoff from the field. (does the run off go to the big pond....not sure i understand based on yer description) When these photos were taken the core was only half finished so a lot more clay is being taken from the pit. (my advice is if you want the little pond, borrow remaining clay laterally, dont dig any deeper, and you might be able to use some clay on the upper sides of the slopes if upper soils are sandy) At this point the contractor is forming slopes as he digs in case we decide to build the little pond.




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Thanks Dave.
 Quote:
i think this might be groundwater as opposed to springs, but this could just be semanitcs, if springs they have positive pressure and with groundwater it would be the water table at equilibrium....build a pond with hopes of filling above level of groundwater, and it could reverse on itself and only stay at the static groundwater level (i.e. never fill)


My guess is also groundwater. The contracter indicated that where the "springs" are may represent the high water level. After the pit filled from Fay there was about 3 weeks where the construction stopped. I watched the water level and it didn't drop during that short period.

 Quote:
how long will the equipment be on-site? if you get a dry run in the weather, you should be able to guage water levels and make a determination before equipment leaves as to whether or not it will stay full and only lose by evaporation


The water was pumped out to allow the construction to continue. We've had little rain since Fay. It's been sunny with low humidity and farmers are complaining about the lack of water, but the pit keeps filling from the "springs" which are about 4 feet above the bottom.

The project should be finished in 3-4 weeks, but towards the end it will be a problem getting material to fill it in because the big pond will be in the final stages.

 Quote:
pumping water is expensive, and as mentioned above, you need to first be able to guage whether or not its losing via groundwater pathways


I think we're limited to gambling on whether it holds water or not. All we have to go on is the 3 week period where it was very stable at about 12 ft deep. Does that give much confidence?

I've looked into solar water pumps for moving water from the big pond to this one. With no watershed and unknown ground water I just wanted to see what some insurance would cost. A solar system that would supply +/- 4800 gallons per day (corrected figure) in the summer costs around $4000 to install. I know that such a system MAY only keep up with evaporation, but this is a "free" pond so we might rationalize this extra cost.

The hole we're making could easily become a .75 acre pond, but I'm thinking of limiting the size to the 1/5 - 1/3 acre exactly because of the water supply, evaporation, etc. I would even consider making it smaller to minimize evaporation.

 Quote:
my suspicion though is you dug to groundwater level, go any deeper and you risk breaking into a porous layer that you can lose water to

my advice is if you want the little pond, borrow remaining clay laterally, dont dig any deeper, and you might be able to use some clay on the upper sides of the slopes if upper soils are sandy


We're not thinking of digging deeper and so far all but the top few feet are excellent clay. The contractor already told me that he would use the best clay to form all of the sides. He thinks the water level might have come up even more because the point where it stopped is at the point where the clay stops and the sandy topsoil begins, about 2 feet below grade.

Thanks again for the feedback Dave. The contractor started working with the idea of making this a pond 2 days ago. We still have the option to fill it or build it at no extra cost. That window of opportunity won't last too much longer though. I'll get a photo of the current progress today. \:\)

Last edited by GW; 10/03/08 02:09 PM. Reason: corrected figures


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Here's the clay pit as of a few hours ago:


The orange line is the high water mark that maintained for 3 weeks after Fay. The green line is the level of the ground water seepage. The average depth at the low level would be about 3 ft and at the high level about 12-14 ft. We would design the pond to look good if the water falls somewhere in the middle.

To lessen the need for water I'm thinking of filling in the hole on the right side in the photo. They still need to take a lot of clay for the big pond so the hole will grow in another direction. Instead of deciding between filling it in entirely or going for the full size pond I'm leaning towards filling in half of the pit. That way we won't need as much water to keep it full. It also allows us to shape the grade around this hilltop pond to make it look more natural.

I also spoke with someone about a different solar pump system that claims to deliver more water for less money. This system would use a Grundfos pump with 3 80 watt solar panels and they say it will pump between 8600 and 10,000 gallons per day depending on the season. Recommended pipe size is 2 - 2.5 inches. The pump also runs on A/C and they say you could triple the output if needed using a generator.




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