Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations YP fingerlings dead

I received 100 YP fingerlings 2" - 4" on Sept. 12. On opening the box the water was VERY foamy with several fish dead or dying. They came from NY overnight arrived here about 11:30 am. I was waiting with a dual therm. The bag temp was 69 deg. I imeadiatly took them to the pond, added about a quart of 70 deg pond water to the bag while it floated which equalized the temp. I lifted out 8 floaters that showed no life but could see several more in the bottom that looked dead. The rest were ether piping or inverted so I quickly poured them in.
A couple of days later I observed 2 fingerlings activly swimming around & observed 1 at another time. I have taken out a total of 31 dead I could see laying on the bottom in the shallow end which were all very decomposed & had to be from the original day of putting them in.
That's the only fish I've seen.
The grow-out pool is connected to the main pond via 3' culvert which I have blocked with a net. & is spring fed. The pool is grey clay lined, apx 3' deep & crawfish keep the bottom 2' cloudy with suspended clay digging holes in the bank.
I'm thinking of seining to see if there's any fish left but worry about stiring up alot of mud after reading Cecil's post where he stressed his fingerlings doing the same.
Any suggestions? Should I sein? I don't know if I have any fish left!

I'd give it some time, maybe a few more days. Are you throwing out any feed to these YP?

I would think the crawdads would have made fairly quick work of any dead fish laying on the bottom, especially 2-4" ones.

Yes I've been putting some feed in. There's also apx 100 FHM in the pool & they tear the feed up.
The crawdads had worked on several I pulled out.
Curiously I found a half grown bullfrog dead in the pool today. The skin was broken on one leg but not the flesh. I have netting over the pool to prevent birds from eating the perch. But there is a coon hitting it regularly.

I'm just guessing, but I would think that you would eventually see some perch hitting the feed.

Can you easily see their vertical sid bar patterns so as to easily discriminate them from the fatheads considering for now that the FH and YP are roughly the same size?

They are easily distinguishable from the FH's being lighter in color & a wider body looking down on them plus the FH's are only about 1" to 1.5" .. forgot to mention that. The FH's come up to feed. I've been softening food to sink it hoping the perch are down there. The FH's meet it on the way down but I loose sight of them after about a foot.

I would bet that you lost more than 31.

If you do seine the pond I would wait a few weeks to give the potential survivors time to recuperate. Don't be surprised if you don't get any feeders up to week or so later.

Stirring up the pond bottom can be a problem if you have lots of muck and potential hydrogen sulfide or methane gas that could come up. If you don't have a lot of muck it may not be a problem.

69 degree water? Seems to me the shipper should have cooled the water more than that. I can't believe it warmed up that much in that short amount of time if the container was insulated. Are they feed trained?

On an unrelated note were they VHS tested? (No worries about them having VHS just wonder if they were tested) You should have gotten a copy of the health testing.

There's no muck in the bottom just lots of soft clay. It was just deepened last month. It's apx. 8' wide X 20' long & then there's the 3' culvert another 20'. Spring fed, dropping from another culvert they don't have access to (now that the water level's dropped).
No ice packs were shipped in the cooler with the fish.
I don't know about the VHS testing. I do know he has a health certificate because he said it expires Oct. 1 & he can't ship fish after that date. I'm ignorant there too.
He offered twice to replace the fish but I don't know if they're all dead, & don't feel right about it. I just told him I would wait until next spring to see if they're there & he agreed to replace them then if not, provided he's issued another health certificate.

I asked what feed they were on so I could match it. The response was

Sorry to hear about your perch Rick. I wouldn't feel bad about it and wouldn't hesitate to ask the man send a replacemnt batch either. You paid for them he agreed to ship them, even offer to help witht he shipping if you feel that would be right. But don't give up, keep moving ahead.

I agree with JoeG. Get your replacements now. There's no guarantee that this guy will even be around next year. No big deal if you have more survivors in the original batch than you currently think. One thing I learned about this fish business is that it needs to be a partnership with give and take between us and the fish suppliers. There are so many variables in dealing with a "live" product.

Regarding the feed, that is a BS answer in my book, but I'm not sure it will matter much.

I have a regenerating YP population, and all age groups come and take feed.

I agree with the others. Get replacement fish. You paid for them and that few of fish at that size isn't that big a deal for the producer.

I would however get him to reduce water temps significantly this time and add some ice packs. At 69 F. the fish were actively consuming oxygen and ran out.

And as far as if they are feed trained it doesn't sound like they are. He may just seine perch out of a pond where they feed on natural feed. You can train them with softened feed though. A cage would be even better.

The shipping was $150 which was more than the fish at $1.10 ea. I got 110 fingerlings. I've already told him I would wait till spring & won't go back on that.

Still wondering about seining & stirring up all the clay.

I have since found a local supplier but need to call & see if he still has fish. Prob. be cheaper to just buy more local.

I'm going to be feeding the fatheads anyway so maybe just leave the pool like it is & if they're there they'll find the food.

I concur with others; get replacement fish last week of Sept before his permit expires Oct1. If you want to be absolutely fair offer to send him a check for the amount difference between 200 YP and the number you harvest out of the small isolated pond. Aggressive active crayfish could capture weak listless small 2"-3" fish lingerling near the bottom. Feeding info from supplier probably had some BS in is as Sunil mentioned. If the receiving pond has 1" FH in it, all halfway normal YP should survive ok.

Ric there is a lot to be said for using locally adapted fish if they are quality fish. I think I would go get some local YP and just assume the loss on the NY YP. Then next spring you can call and make a trade with the NY guy if he is in business. Get some YP or other fish later next year.