Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations An aggressive culling program

I believe it's generally accepted that fish growth is better than average in a new pond and that after 3-5 years management becomes more difficult, or complicated, or some such thing. I'm guessing that culling the fish starts in earnest around the 3-5 year mark and that expanding population is the cause of the more involved management and slower fish growth. Now if I've got all of that mostly right...

What if I start culling fish in my pond's first season or maybe the beginning of the next?

My situation is probably a bit different than most people's, but maybe it will apply to others as well.

My pond:

1. Built Jan 08
2. 1/3 acre
3. FH stocked Jan 08
4. 100+ RES @ 1.25" stocked late March
5. 24 RES adults stocked late April - early May
6. Flooding in late August caused the loss of possibly half of the large RES and many of the small ones. It also added a large number of WM from fry - 4 inches from the upstream pond.

With the summer coming to an end I imagine my initial 130+ RES have expanded to many thousands of fish. This is a trophy "brim" pond and I won't be adding a larger predator. Would it be worth considering the removal of fish this soon? I'm not sure how easy it is to trap WM and RES, and I don't have a good set up for seining.

Any thoughts?

well, i've waited until they start looking skinny and its only taken 2 growing/spawning seasons, but i started w/ a whole lot more fish.

glad i could help

edit post....ok seriously gw, good question.....condello once told me something about identify the fish you want to grow big and make sure they have more food they can eat.....pond mgmt 101.

You've heard the term "...four out of five dentists..."

When Condello speaks, he's the fifth dentist.


(I don't know what I'm talking about either)

GW I think DIED's situation is near normal as to time. I have seen info from studies on ponds in the south and mid America climates and they tell us that a new pond will reach carrying capacity in around 2 years from stocking.

I view pond fish numbers/amount as a pie. You start with a little filling (stocker fish) and put it in the oven. It expands to fill the pie (pond at carrying capacity). From that point on its a matter of managing what is there to get the #s and sizes you want. Absent some act to increase capacity (a bigger pie plate) like feeding aeration and fertilization you can never put more (fish) in the plate than the amount there when it came out of the oven. You can change the # and size of the fruit in the pie but it only holds X amount of volume.

Part of the difficulty of creating solid stocking programs (amounts and sizes of stocker fish) is knowing how they will turn out 1 ,3 and 5 years later wrt populations and size mixes and balance. I hope this helps some.

Hmm.

What would be some effects of me removing 500 fish from 2-5" this winter? None of these fish will ever be forage for another fish so don't they just consume resources?

Would a bream pond benefit from culling sooner because there is no large predator to be stocked later?

What if we think in terms of the large BG/stunted LMB model? At what point would the LMB usually be unleashed to start thinning the BG? My concern is that I'm not going to be using LMB to thin my Lepomis so it seems I've made a big job for myself. If I have to remove as many fish as a hoard of skinny LMB would eat then I might want a head start.

Can't even guess at question 1.

Yes on question 2.

LMB start culling BG as soon as they can fit one in its mouth. Depending on time of stocking within 9 mths at latest.

Any RES too big for the WM too ever eat and still too small to be a star performer as a big RES is culling material IMHO. If you could remove 99% of these middle sized RES, you would still have individuals from that particular year class left to grow to trophy size. I doubt you (or anyone, given reasonable efforts that could be pursued by non-Dentists) could get 99%, probably 90% is more realistic.

The Warmouth will hopefully thin the smallest Redears; I think GW has to get the middle sized ones.

Thanks gents.

Would the "big" fish be the 100+ 4" fish that were stocked in March, or just the adult fish that were stocked in April/May?

Does anyone have experience trapping RES or WM?

I'd start high-grading the 100 March stockers, removing any obvious underperformers. I'd leave the best and middlin' of this class for now.

Thanks, so do you agree with removing as many 2-4" fish as possible now?

I would start removing some but not sure how many "as many as possible" is.

+1

GW, here's a couple thoughts for you,

given you remember my pond situation:
the fish that show signs of not having enough to eat after 2 yrs are BG in the 4 to 6" class. basis for comparison to RES is sketchy at best but my gut says to concentrate culling on that middle size of fish, leave the small ones (<4") as forage for larger fish, and selectively cull/keep the largest ones (those >6") for genetics and gender (keep males, cull females).

Dave, that sounds like what I was considering only my fish are smaller overall. The only fish I have in the 4-6" class are 24 adult RES minus whatever went over the e. spillway which was at least 4 or 5 of them. Also it will be a while before there is anything big enough to eat a 4" fish in my pond. The only fish with that potential are the WM and the largest are now 4" themselves.

Theo and ewest, I'm thinking that my pond would be a better trophy Lepomis pond if every fish smaller than 4", and fish larger than 2" could be removed. That would leave thousands of yoy under 2", the March fingerlings (WM, RES) which are 4"+ now, the most successful yoy from the early spawns this year, plus the few adult RES I added in April/May.

I don't see how that medium class of fish helps my goals. They will never be forage and they consume resources that the larger fish could use.

i think that sounds like a reasonable plan, leave only the smallest FRY and YOY for larger fish forage.

Harvest fish in the class size where there are to many fish (not counting yoy fry). In your case the 2-3 inch fish. In making choices keep in mind the gape size limits of your fish. I don't think even a large adult RES can eat a 4 inch sunfish. Possibly a large adult WM could eat a 4 inch BG/RES.