Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose HSB in Northern Ponds

I'm thinking of trying HSB in my .2 acre pond, 9 feet deep. It is well aerated, and I supplement feed. My water temps in the summer temp get near 70 to 75 F, with only nighttime aeration. If I ran the aerators during the day, I'd bet the temps would get near or above 80 f for much of the summer.

I've had trout in the pond for three years, with some fair success. Although I think I lose bunches to mink, GBH, and every once in a while cormorants.

However, the Golden Shiner population is very, very healthy. The adult size is about 5 to 6 inches, and there are tons of them - of all sizes. Apparently the trout are just not predacious enough, especially in summer time when they get stressed from elevated temps.

Ten bucks and an application process will get me an import permit from an out-of-state hatchery.

Any body have any experience with HSB in northern ponds?

Here's why I'm thinking HSB.
1) Fast growth.
2) Good flavor.
3) No risk of reproduction.
4) Good catchability - especially in the summer.

I have lots of experience (ten years worth and over thirty ponds stocked including five of my own).

I'll answer any questions you have in the future.

You are correct on all four counts.

This may seem counter-intuitive, but don't worry too much about stocking too many. Think about it more in terms of weight of fish/water volume. I'd rather see you stock a few too many, then harvest out the slower growing fish over the next year or two. In a .2 acre pond you will have extreme control over numbers. You could thin the population down by 50% in two hours if you ever chose to do so.

To be more specific, Bruce could thin the population by 50% in 2 hours. Most of us might require an hour couple of hours.

Having never had the chance to eat HSB, do they really taste very good? I haven't ever found bass to be that palitable, are these hybrids different? I dislike bass because of the strong fish flavor I have found when eating them, just wondered how others felt about it. I prefer milder flavored fish such as Yellow Perch and Walleye, but I am seriously considering adding some HSB to my pond, to be able to eat them would be a bonus.

I've pure stripers and they are amazingly good and actually cost a pretty penny at grocery stores. I'd also be interested in knowing how HSB taste

RB

Largemouth is IME improved by soaking fillets in clean water for a day or two, like I do with catfish. This lets tiny hidden pockets of trapped blood exit the meat before cooking - maybe something else distasteful soaks out as well.

HSB have a bloodline on each fillet that will have to be removed, then it is good to eat. Also, what Theo said.

JoeG, with your close proximity to Erie, I'd have thought you like smallmouth bass.

NE Mason, you might not have as bad a time with herons with the HSB as the HSB are not really shore huggers, but more of an open water fish.

I would go for it full force. It's a crazy fighting fish.

I like to catch smallies, but never cared much for the taste of bass. All I can say is convert me!! I am going to put them into my strategy and see how they fight and taste I reckon. I can always make fish patties out of them.

Careful, guys. It's a little early to let this thread drift.

Sorry, it's all my fault. How many HSB would you stock in an acre pond with YP and FH for forage??? That should steer it back a little. Again, my fault, sorry.

The concern would be YP over population.

Number of HSB to stock per acre will depend on if fish are fed pellets or not. No pellet feeding of bass will result in more predatory pressure on the YP and shiners. I have seen in a 1/2 acre pond with HSB "on pellets" they strongly controlled YP recruitment. Predatory pressure can be regulated somewhat by cutting back on amount of artificial feed added and or by adding more HSB. As in all fish communities the rooted vegetation should be managed to prevent the formation of too much refugia for small fish.

Numbers to stock will also depend if shiners and YP are already established or not. Stock more if trying to reduce already existing densities. The beauty of HSB is one has complete control of their numbers in the pond. Main variable is the amount of predatory pressure that HSB will have on certain species of smaller fish such as bottom or weed huggers. Shiners are more open water whereas YP are more bottom sturcture and submerged weed oriented where HSB are at a disadvantage. My expereience indicates that FH will not survive long with Y. perch since both are bottom oriented. However I have seen HSB come into very shallow water near the shore with their back out of water to get pellets. Thus they will go shallow for food items.

For stocking a newish small, northern, fertile, waterbody with no other predators similar to that mentioned by JoeG, I would use 60-80 per acre for starters and stocking fingerling HSB. Adjust number depending on situation. Others may have additional sugggestions based on experience.

As for eating, I dislike HSB especially when they get larger than 16". At this point the red meat along the lateral line becomes prominent. The lateral red meat is very strong flavored that I equate to fishy. If the meat is removed the flavor improved but this results in wasteing a lot of meat that could have been utilized if some other similar sized fish was cleaned. The other thing I dislike about HSB fillets is the fillet is composed of thick coarse flakes compared to bass, walleye, catfish, or BG fillets. White bass has similar features of the fillet to those of HSB.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to stock HSB as a food fish unless one has first eaten fillets from a HSB that was 18" or larger. IMO SMB fillets are better tasting than HSB. But angling wise, I think SMB are about 75% as strong a fighter as a HSB. As for a hard fighting freshwater fish, IMO one cannot beat the HSB for strength, speed, and duration inch for inch. Too bad they don't jump like tarpon or smallies.

Guys, thanks for the comments and advice. I am encouraged despite the qualifications on HSB flavor. I go striper fishing here in Casco Bay, and love the filets. Plus I've read there's growth in commercial production of HSBs. So I just sort of assumed a firm, flaky, white filet of fair-to-decent taste. Hey, enough lemon, butter, and fresh ground dill and even shoe leather gets pretty tasty. Throw in a bit of minced garlic.

So what's the downside? Lots of fun catching these things, from what I understand.

I'll be putting a plan in place to convert to HSB next spring.
o Locate a supplier. Read on another thread of one in Delaware.
o Purchase at a small enough size to overnight? Is it possible? But if I had to do a road trip to Delaware that would be okay, too.
o I've been using Silver Cup high protein trout feed. But I suppose I'd go to the Aquamax you folks rave about.
o Put them in sometime after ice-out next spring, in a cage until they get to 6 inches or so? I'll probably have something like 30 trout in the pond... But then they have shown themselves to be pusillanimous pansies as predacious predators. (Yeah, I had to look it up, too) So they probably would not bother even the six inch HSB?

I'm getting excited!!

One other thing. I have a massive crayfish population. I've lined the sides of my pond with field stone pretty much top to bottom. Laid over commercial-grade mesh weed barrier. So what I did was to create a massive crawdad condo. I put a crayfish trap in there and it fills up with crayfish in a few hours. I'm betting the HSB would tear through the shiners and crayfish pretty well.

You know, it's kind of strange to root for the top predator with such unabashed enthusiasm. I feel like one of the Roman mob cheering on the lions against the christians... Go, go, go! YESSSS!!! (Where are my morals?)

In case you guys don't remember, here's pics of pond when I was seining this spring (didn't work very well). Everybody loves pics.

Comments:

1. I love your pond. It is one of my all time favorites.

2. HSB rock. You're gonna love 'em

3. HSB fight like rockets. They'll burn up a fly reel.

4. HSB taste pretty good if you remove the red meat, soak in salty milk and have a good preparation method.

5. I don't think the trout will bother 6 inch HSB. Just stock a few extra to account for mortality--they're pretty cheap.

6. You can have one inchers emailed to you from Keo, Arkansas next spring. PM me for advice when the time comes around. You'll want to get your order in by April.

7. My HSB go nutty over Aquamax.

8. What does "pussilllannimouse" mean?

I have no idea if HSB eat crawdaddies or not.

What about Smallmouth (we need the dues)?

Oops. Forgot to comment on that...

At our biggest local reservoir that has HSB, if we catch them in the summer their snouts are beat to heck because they are constantly rooting around for crayfish.

Guys, this is really sounding good. My sincere thanks.

Pusillanimous means cowardly (I said I had to look it up!). As in my trout are woosy wimps. Or as in when a New Englander has to use fancy-schmancy words to feel good about himself because his pond is small. And his fish are small. And his hopes and dreams and maybe other things...

Great news about getting the fry shipped in the spring. And about HSB getting voracious on the crayfish. As well as the good advice on stocking rates, Bill.

I plan on stocking some HSB soon, in a 2/3 acre. Not sure how many. Thought about 25 and more later, but stocked fingerling lmb last month. Maybe as you said, Bruce, just stock more at one time. Would 50 be too many?

This for Joe; no need to apologize for skewing the thread. It wasnt really even a wobble. Table fare quality was the only 1 of the 4 reasons that was subjective and needed discussing. Now, if more had chimed in with chopped photos, comic captions, etc(you know who you are) then it could have gone off the deep end.

Beautiful pond and setting, NE Mason.

Mason, good luck with HSB, I've been thinking about putting them in too. I wonder how fast they'll grow in the colder water up here?
If you want some mean Trout try Tigers, they're like sharks!

In my opinion 50 is very conservative if you look at it by weight. What would that be...maybe 3 lbs/acre? You just need to harvest the slower growers as the next year or two go by.

NEMason - NO need to stop using Silver Cup as food for HSB. Trout and several other predator species do better on Silver Cup than Aquamax and it is very likely HSB will also do better. I would regularly feed Silver Cup, but it is very hard to obtain in my area.

I don't think theres a lot of difference in Silver Cup and the high protein Aquamax/Purina. I know people who swear by both.

I don't know a lot about Silver Cup but the Aquamax and Purina is mashed up Menhaden.

Dave - Silver Cup is usually used most often by those that require the very best performance from a fish food, such as those in commerical fish raising operations. I am told that Silver Cup produces more size and weight gain and also produces less waste material than Aquamax and some of the other high protein fish foods. Don't take what I said above wrong, both are good premium quality fish foods. The real bigg benefit with Aquamax is it is readily available all over the US whereas Silver Cup is very hard to find or relatively quite expensive to get shipped to ones location. Aquamax is VERY good for those that do not operate a commerical fish hatchery. Trout growers are the ones that feel strongest about preferring Silver Cup.

Bill, I'm thinking more about Joe Average Pond Owner who will get good results from both. Both are expensive but both give good results.

I have never ordered Silver Cup but one guy told me that it had to bought as a pallet load. Is that true? I'm currently feeding hi protein Aquamax.

Interesting about less waste material with Silver Cup. I wonder how they do that. I guess more of it goes to growth.

As I said, Dr. Mark tells me that Aquamax is menhaden. It's an oily fish and tastes terrible to me. Yeah, I know; you might be a pond junkie if..... What's in Silver Cup?