Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Cool water gamefish in Southern Indiana

I am planning to build a 5 acre pond this year. I would like to try yellow perch, walleye, smallmouth bass, and a few others. I don't know if my summer temperatures will allow. The pond will be partially shaded and 18 feet deep at the deepest. If I aerate at the deepest point during the warm months and only when the air temp is lower than the water temp, would that keep the water temp low enough to sustain these species in my area? I am located about 30 miles north of Louisville Kentucky. Also would it be better to dig it deeper?

I got some information from Adam Hater at Jones Fish Farm regarding my question. Here is his reply:

David,

With the information that you provided me with in your email, the proposed 5 acre lake already sounds great. Jones Fish Hatchery specializes in setting up different or unusual stocking recommendations such as the one you mentioned. Species such as yellow perch, walleye, and smallmouth bass will thrive in a lake that has 5 surface acres and is 18’ deep. The proposed 18’ of depth is more than sufficient to support the species mentioned above. In fact, we have seen great success with walleye and smallmouth in lakes that are as shallow as 10’. The best advice I can provide you with, in regards to alternative gamefish stocking is, not to add largemouth bass. Largemouth bass will out-compete the other gamefish species mentioned above.

Also, the addition of a sub-surface diffused aeration system is important to the well being of the cooler water gamefish. Due to the proposed depth (18’), aerating with sub-surface diffusers are very efficient and should control many of the nuisance weeds and algae that are likely to develop. After the lake is constructed, we will be able to help you determine how much equipment is needed for proper aeration.

Lastly, Jones Fish Hatchery offers free delivery throughout the entire State of Indiana with a $150.00 order. However, our facility is only 100 miles from Louisville Ky. If you would like to visit our facility, I would certainly encourage you to do so. Please provide me with your mailing address, so I can send you our 2005 catalog. This will include all fish sizes, prices, as well as a map to our facility in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Thank you,

Adam Hater
General Manager
Jones Fish and Lake Management
1-800-662-FISH

If I were contemplating stocking cool water fish in your location I would think about stocking fatheads only for the first year and take some fairly extensive temperature readings at different locations and depths throughout your 5 acre pond during the Summer. The temperature profile you record should give you a better idea what species you can utilize. Virtually any predator you put in will be able to use the fatheads for initial growth their first couple of years.

I have found Jones Fish to be a pretty good outfit to deal with. Hopefully someone more experienced in YP-Walleye-SMB will chip in with good advice. (Hey, Cecil and Bill!)

DC - All the info that was supplied above was in my opinion good EXCEPT for -" aerating with sub-surface diffusers are very efficient and should control many of the nuisance weeds and algae that are likely to develop.". The word efficient was okay but I think this other part about should control was very misleading and suggestive information unless he has a different definition of: "nuisance weeds and algae" than mine and most other people. Early in aerator popularity this algae & weed control theory developed. It has never been scientifically proven to do as it is often promised about weed and algae control. Sometimes after an aerator is installed the "pond" conditons improve but rarely are they scientifically measured or documented and the hype about algae and weed control continues to be spread without proof. If you get a chance to talk or email him again ask him SPECIFICALLY how he defines "nuisance weeds and algae". When certain ratios of dissolved nutrients are present in the water 20 to 30 aerators per acre will not stop rooted weed, filamentous algae and even most bluegreen algae growth. I have never seen an aerator even come close to controlling rooted weeds. No scientific proof has ever been published about rooted weed control by aerators. Ask to read his scientific proof. If he disagrees, get his guarantee in writing , because you WILL eventually collect on this warranty. Newly filled ponds OFTEN have nuisance filamentous algae problems especially when the fill water (fertilized runoff) contained excess nurients and even when aerators are present. He gave you a typical aeration sales pitch and it gives you unrealisic expectations of what an aerator can do. I also sell aerators but not under false pretenses and promises.

Bottom aerators are very good for a pond and provide many benefits to a stratified pond but algae and weed control are usually not caused by operation of aerators.

Since you got what I think is misleading information, when you shop for an aerator also check out Ted Lea and GreenClean-Vertex Systems south of Lima (Ted has numerous posts here at the forum). He is very knowledgable and a "straght shooter" when it comes to overall aeration knowledge and info.

Your aerating operation plan (run times) during mid-summer may not provide enough water tunover in your large pond to keep oxygenated water in the deepest basin of the pond. Ted Lea may be able to provide some ideas with this concept. You may have to do temp and or oxygen tests to verify feasibility of your theory.

Theo has some good suggestions about first stocking fatheads and checking temperature ranges of positions in the water column at a few locations in the pond during the first summer. This info will give you very good baseline information for reference to help troubleshoot possible future problems. I would install a bottom aerator the first year and run it at various times to learn how it distributes the water turnover and affects resultant temperatures.

Coolwater Fish. Jones' info on fish to you was okay. But my main concern with them is that their standard coolwater plan or package is deficient on forage items and too heavy on predators. A shortage of forage items almost always results in slow and inadequate predator growth. I assume they are in the business to sell fish. Notice, unless they read this, they will "push" to sell all the fish to you at one time and recommend to restock with shiners each year. Wonder why? In my opinion, a balanced pond should be able to pretty much self-maintain the predator:prey ratio and the need for resocking of forage items should be minimal or nonexistant. I have a small pond (1991)with perch & SMB with a few walleye and have never had to restock forage fish. If you are having to regularly restock forage fish something is basically wrong with the balance of fish. In this situation, usually problem of fish numbers or density needs to be fixed.

As you probably know from reading past posts here, the walleye will not successfully recruit new young walleye into your pond. When you harvest them you will have to restock if you want the same relative density of walleye. Sometimes, you may decide you have too many walleye and want to reduce their numbers due too a shortage of forage fish and or the occasional strong SMB hatches result in good survival of young bass. SMB will produce spawns about each year if you have crayfish and gravel for nest construction. Too many predators esp. SMB&perch will stiffle fish growth by over consuming forage items leaving it in short supply.

The most rapid stocking schedule you should do is to stock minnows-shiners and possibly perch fingerlings (2"-4") in the spring or jsut minnows-shiners in spring add perch in fall. Personally I would wait to add SMB until you see or know there will be a first perch spawn which will likely be third spring. Problem with this is that fingerling SMB are very hard to locate in the spring. So add some or most of your fingerling SMB in the second fall so they are present in the third spring. Adult perch and SMB will really "hammer" the forage so be prepared to keep the SMB numbers thinned down based on the forage fish supply. Adding walleye to this fish mix will complicate management. So be careful not to add too many. 10 walleye per acre is a lot when SMB and perch are also eating the forage fish. Large perch (5"-10") will serve as predator and small perch (1"-4') will serve as forage. The walleye if stocked should be considered an occassional, rare, bonus fish and not a primary predator, unless your stocking was intended to be the only predator present. You may likely discover that you need bgill to help supply forage fish. If bgill are added then SMB numbers will have to be much stronger. This further complicates the management of numbers to maintain a balance among all species present. One can easily have all species present, but, is there a balance of species so all are properly growing?.

POSTSCRIPT NOTE - The management methods for the stocking mix that you are proposing are not well established. It often fails due to lack of proper management and the owner not knowing how to PROPERLY adjust the fish numbers when necessary. These ponds over time tend to go out of balance.

First, check temperature data for your "cool water fish" at www.fishbase.org.

Walleye will eat a YP or BG up to 1/3 of its body length. So your 18" walleye will eat 6" YP or BG.
SMB will eat another fish up to 1/4 of its body length. So a 18" SMB only eats 4.5" YP and BG. Keep in mind that an 18" walleye is about 2lb and an 18" SMB is close to 3.5lb.

Be prepared for your YP population to fluctuate. Adult yellow perch will eat yoy YP, in some lakes YP only have significant year classes every 5 or 6 years.

Also, it is my personal belief that WY can control BG populations, when stocked at the appropriate densities. In one study 2 yr old walleye consumed more grams of BG than 2 yr old LMB, in the same lake. BG are not coaddapeted to survive with WY. WY also have high rates of consumption and have a gape similar to LMB.

Bill already said this but it bears repeating. You may need to run an aerator all summer or year. If the bottom becomes anoxic you will force fish into warmer surface waters, by areating you may increase the temp at the bottom but this will not harm fish as much as low or no DO.

Thanks for the replies!
I'm most interested in the YP then the SMB. I was thinking I needed the Walleye to control the YP population. Wouldn't BG out compete the YP? Also would golden shiners or shad help as forage in addition to fatheads? I am planning to stock RE to help control parasites.

Dave - Are you still out there and frequenting the forum? I would consider stocking golden shiners but omit the shad which I assume are gizzard shad. It is very doubtful that threadfin shad will survive year round in the so. Indiana winters. I think a strong population of g.shad will consume too much of the larger beneficial zooplantkton that are very important in producing rapid growth of young y.perch. Also adult g.shad I think will consume lots of perch fry since perch fry move to the open water soon after hatching.

Once you have the YP and SMB established and you think the forage fish are maintaining or increasing their populations / numbers you can add a few walleye to the 5 acre pond. Adding walleye will be more successful if you have ample small perch (3"-5") and large shiners available. In five acres I would start with 4-6 walleye per acre. Stock 6"-8" walleye to minimize predation of them by larger SMB. A second supplimental stocking of walleye (4-6/ac) could occur 2-3 yrs later if the first group survives. Keep us informed on the progress of your pond.

anyone stocking any "eyes"?
whats your take on mortality rates

Mortality for fingerling to 7" "eyes" is low in a new pond with ample forage. Once a mixed size population of "eyes" exists, expect 50%-25% survival of stocked fingerlings. Survival could be as low as 10% for fingerlings. Survival rate will be dependent on amount of weed cover, amount of proper sized forage fish and if LMB are present. IMO Walleyes and LMB are not a good combination.