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#129188 08/13/08 07:01 PM
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I recently replaced the timer on my aerator, and put in a plug-in thermostat. The purpose was to take advantage of days which are cool instead of just running it at night. The thermo is set to turn on at 66 degrees. I have a 75 ft. soaker hose in about 4 ft. water, and with the cool days we've had it's really helped to keep pond temps. down for the Brook, Rainbow & Tiger trout.
Does anyone else use a thermostat on their aerator? [/img] [/img] [/img]

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/13/08 08:11 PM.


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AP, no I have not used a thermostat to engage my aerator. But it makese sense. However, how do you ensure it runs even on warm nights? You still need to elevate DO levels, correct?

Like you, we in New Hampshire have had some surprisingly cool temps - even during the days. Unfortunately, the humidity/dew points have been very high - essentially leaving saturated air during the night and early morning. I run the aerator during the night, but it has therefore had a somewhat limited cooling effect.

Nevertheless, the bottom temps in my 9 foot deep pond have steadily gone down from 73 deg f on July 23 to 66 today. I've got rainbows in there that should make it through the summer okay.

Is that a tiger trout I see in the pic? Very interesting pattern. What advantages do you find with the tiger trout? I have found rainbows to be clearly fastest growing and hardier than brook. The browns are hardy and temperature tolerant, but slower growing and more skittish/harder to catch than rainbows.

What has been your experience with trout surviving through the summer?

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Good to hear from you Mason,
I mainly have the aerator to help cool the pond,and i'm not there all the time, i live 95 miles from my pond. If i lived by the pond i guess i wouldnt need the thermostat.
The DO has been fine cause i have 40GPM piped in from a stream, and the warmest night still reached 63 degrees.
The temp at 5ft. was 64 Sunday so it's not too bad, my ponds max depth is only 8 ft.
Yes that was a tiger trout, 13 1/2", they are very aggressive, i hope to get more next year. After the winterkill i had i'll use the aerator shallow to keep part of the pond open, and i'm going to run water from my well.
Last summer was hot and dry, but the brookies reached 12" & rainbows 14" by the end of august.
How are your trout doing, and how big have they gotten, also how deep are you aerating?

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/14/08 07:02 AM.


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AP --

Those are some excellent pictures -- love the tiger trout! Wish I had a local supplier down here in Virginia.

That's a neat idea using a soaker hose as an air diffuser line. It looks very effective.

I run aeration 24/7 from early spring through late fall. My pond is spring-fed and the water emerges from the ground at about 54 degrees, but with just about zero dissolved oxygen. Another factor in my pond is the vegetation -- chara covers about 80% of the pond. I'm sure the DO levels in the pond probably approach super-saturation on some bright sunny days. But when the process reverses at night, the trout need all the O2 the aeration system can provide.

I have mostly rainbows in my pond (a few brooks, too, right now). They have summered through successfully since 2003.

I used to take a lot of temperature readings for my trout, but eventually quit. Thermal stress -- mine, not the trouts'.

From late June or early July through about the first week of September, the trout stay clustered either by the spring inlet or in a deep weed-free area (where I suspect some cold spring water wells up). I don't feed during the summer; but most of the trout must do some limited foraging because they wind up in pretty decent shape when fishing resumes in mid- to late October.

If I may ask a couple of dumb questions: when you say the thermostat turns on at 66 degrees -- is that 66 degrees the air or water temperature? Also, is that when it rises or drops to 66? (Sorry for being slow to grasp things).

Anyway, I really appreciate your post -- and, again, those are really excellent pictures. -- Mike Smith, Lexington, Virginia

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Hey Mike,
Nice country there in the Shenandoah Valley. I use to live in Stanardsville on the other side of the mountains ,but that was 26 years ago.
The soaker hose seems to be working out good, but it's only been in 6 weeks. I used weights to keep it down, but it wouldn't lay flat, so i filled a garden hose with sand, and zip tied it to the soaker, that did the job.
The plug-in thermostat works on air temp., and it has a heat, or cool switch so you can have it turn on, or off at any temp you choose. it also can be programmed for different settings on different days, but thats too complicated for my short attention span. i got the thermo. from Amazon.
There probably aren't many people with trout ponds down there, how big are your trout, and how deep is the pond?
There are alot of hatcheries in penn. that sell Tiger trout, you might even find some closer. they are definitly more agressive than either my rainbow ,or brook trout.
Good talkin to ya.



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I turn my diffuser on at night regardless of the air temps. Apparently I lucked out in that due to the amount of flow into my pond (51.6 F.), the steep sides, and the small size of the pond, I've monitored a drop in temps as soon as the sun starts to lay down. By morning my pond is usually in the low 60's and the max temp even in the hottest weather was 66 during the day around the edges.

On a side note I recently took down my packed column to remove the iron that was coating the plastic media. (an annual pain which involves muriatic acid) In the mean time the water drops into a lined pit before going underground and cascading out of an upturned elbow into the pond. The trout are doing fine, so I'm going to compare D.O. saturation before and after I put back up the packed column. It's possible there isn't that much of a difference. If so I'll take it back down! I will keep you posted if anyone is interested.

(I set up the packed column from advice of a consultant) I can see if if I had a raceway, but with two points of saturation and a pond I may find it not necessary.

My browns grow just as fast as the bows I've had. Not sure if it's the strain or some other factor. They do get plenty to eat. I had one go from 1.5 lbs. to 7 lbs. 12 oz. in one year.

BTW that aerator thermostat is pretty cool!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/14/08 10:48 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Hey cecil,
I've seen the pictures of your ponds, a real neat set-up.
When you say your pond temps. are in the low 60,s what depth are you measuring them? Also what do you mean by a packed column?
It's time for me to hit the sack i'll check-in tommorrow, see ya.



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AP --

Trout ponds are a little rare down here, to be sure -- there could probably be quite a few more, especially above 2,000' elevation. But a lot of people just don't seem to know that it can be done.

I'm hoping to "pitch" the idea for holding a coldwater pond "demo" field day to our State Game & Inland Fisheries folks and Virginia Tech Extension natural resource specialists. Sort of like a mini-PondBoss Conference for trout pond owners, or those folks who like to try to establish a trout pond in the western/mountainous part of the Commonwealth.

My little pond is down pretty low, only abut 1,200' elevation above sea level -- the spring is what makes it a year-round trout pond.

The pond isn't too deep, about 9 feet max. It's just a but over a quarter acre and averages about 4 feet deep -- so, in effect, about one acre-foot of water (a nice round number which helps me in my math-challenged calculations for pond treatments).

The "pond record" is a rainbow taken two years ago that was 23" and just about six pounds -- a very substantial fish for its length. But I don't try to produce many big fish like that any more (much to the chagrin of my fly-fishing friends from up in the DC area who occasionally make the three-hour trip down to this part of VA.).

What I try to do now is purchase 8" to 10" trout (rainbows, "goldens" and some brookies) and feed them, trying to get them up to a 14" to 18" range -- a nice size, especially for the kids and grandkids of friends who fish here from time to time. I've been able to grow rainbows from about 10" in early November to almost 16" by late May -- using a 42% protein feed.

I would like to stock smaller sub-adult trout (4" to 6"), but my only attempt with these smaller fish didn't work out too well ... though the neighborhood great blue heron and the few largemouth bass and channel cats in my pond must have thought it a pretty marvelous stocking regimen.

Alas, when I bought my place there were already fish in the pond. Had I the chance to do it over, I would have started with a clean slate -- removed all warmwater fish at the outset. I discovered late last fall that even an 8" brookie can be just a snack for a 16" bass.

Needless to say, I've been encouraging vigorous harvest of bass and channel catfish this year. The channel cats are now almost history; the largemouth's, I'm afraid, are a permanent fixture.

That's why I opt for 8" minimum and preferably 10" fish for stocking. Besides, I have two nearby trout hatcheries, and I can haul 50 10" fish in a 100 gallon tub, with a aerator, for up to an hour without any problems.

I really like that air hose rig as you described it -- a great idea! And it looks like a pretty terrific pond, too. -- Mike S.

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 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Hey cecil,
I've seen the pictures of your ponds, a real neat set-up.
When you say your pond temps. are in the low 60,s what depth are you measuring them? Also what do you mean by a packed column?
It's time for me to hit the sack i'll check-in tommorrow, see ya.


Surface down to about 3 or 4 feet. Don't have a pier on the pond yet so the only way to get the complete temp profile would be to use a boat or something. However I may add a pier very soon.

Here's my packed column. It consists of five gallon buckets with plastic media in each bucket (held in by plastic screen in thw bottom of each bucket). The water drops through via gravity after being pumped up to the top from the well. The plastic media breaks up the water blowing off nitrogen gas and carbon dioxide, and adds dissolved oxygen. Most packed columns are closed tubes and some actually have a blower that blows air up to enhance oxygen saturation. The open space in between the buckets enhances D.O. saturation too.





Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/14/08 11:33 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Mike,
you must have a pretty good spring flow to keep the trout happy with a 9ft pond depth. did you start the experiment with trout, or did the previous owner have some? also do you find that the golden rainbows grow faster or the same as rainbows?
Have you considered raising some smaller trout in cages? I believe Cecil,and many other people on this forum do so?
Goin to the cabin for the weekend, talk to ya later. Larry M.



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Cecil,
Thats an interesting set-up you have for increasing DO. Are you pumping water thru it from a ground well only, or are you also pumping pond water thru it? What type of plastic media?
I am also considering pumping water from my well to the pond this winter to help keep pond level up, cause my gravity feed pipes from the stream freeze-up.
Gotta go, be back on Sunday.



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 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Cecil,
Are you pumping water thru it from a ground well only, or are you also pumping pond water thru it?


Ground water well only. Well only runs from Apr-May to the end of August and is used primarily to keep the pond cool enough for the trout and to flush out some metabolic products.

 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
What type of plastic media?


I don't remember what this particular type is called but it's not the Koch material that some use. It really doesn't matter what type you use. It's more important to use the size that is recommended for your flow rate.

Here are a couple of pictures of what I use.





Like I said in a previous post it's entirely possible one does not need to use a packed column to aerate well water for a pond situation even with trout. When I get a breather from the taxidermy work load I will check D.O.levels before and after re-installation of the packed column. I've been dropping the well water into the pit and then into the trout pond via an upturned elbow and the trout seem to be doing fine. The packed column was a recommendation from a consultant, and I have since found several things that were suggested that were not only unnecessary but actually wouldn't work!

 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
I am also considering pumping water from my well to the pond this winter to help keep pond level up, cause my gravity feed pipes from the stream freeze-up.


I would recommend figuring out how to prevent your inflow from freezing up in the winter vs. the expense of a well.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/16/08 09:56 PM.

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Cecil,
Thanks for the info. Your right about the expense of running well water, but my problem is the very cold weather. My gravity flow pipes run 300ft from above a waterfall,and with the thin soil and very rocky ground i really can't bury them. I have some insulation on one of them but when it gets below zero, and with the stream water pretty cold it froze. Last year it froze on dec. 1 with a temp of 5 below zero, and only 6" of snow on the ground. We do get as much as 30 below. I did consider putting heat tape on it, but that would use more power than a pump, and we can get frequent power outages. Since i don't live at my pond i might not be there to run the generator if the power goes out.
The reason im considering well water is the water temp at 50 degrees, and because i had alot of fill brought in to put my cabin on, i can bury the pipe the 150 ft. down the hill to the pond.
You were right when you told me this spring that the trout probably sank, and decomposed, i only found 1 dead trout.
This really Bummed me out, so hopefully between aerating shallow, and keeping the water level up my trout will survive the winter.
Thanks again for the info.

March 28 2008, Winter stays late here.
[/img]

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/19/08 08:58 PM.


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I've been away from the PB site for awhile- it is great to see the blog about trout! I have learned more about BG and bass than I ever care to- while accidentally reading through the blogs.

Fabulous to see there are a few more TROUT MEN out there! Real men catch and eat trout (in their own pond!)

Speaking of thermostatically controlled aeration, I actually started a thread on this topic couple of years ago on PB. I installed a Ranco adjustable 220v thermostat back in 2006. I bought it from ACF Greenhouse we-site - http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/controls.shtml

Quick background
1/3 acre pond (62 x 225 rectangle)
location: Northern, Lower Peninsula of Michigan
artesian well - 15 gpm
2nd supplemental well / pumped (12 gpm)
pond depth- 9 ft. max, 3 ft. at edges
1/4 h.p. air compressor running two large diffuser membranes

Stocked 200 2 yrs. ago with 10-11" rainbows
Pond is 130 miles from my house (have a cabin up there though!)
Use an automated feeder to deliver Silver Cup 5.5mm floating trout pellets.

Have gone through quite a learning curve in past 5 years with two stockings (one failed- over-cooked them using the aerator (no thermostat!) then got it right this time. . . I have a few dozen 5-6 lb. rainbows left in there at 24 inches. Will be fishing them all out in the next 2 months.

My approach
Ranco Thermostat for aerator set to turn on when air temps drop to 62, turn off when air temp hits 67.

Lots of thick filamentious algae in shallower sections. Oxygen is added via photosynthesis and wind during the day as well as the splashing of the two well input pipes. Most nights it drops below 62 (in fact just 2 weeks back (late July it dipped as low as 43!)

So the aerator runs most nights, all night long when O2 levels are likely at their lowest. Bottom of pond temp was a high of 67 during heat of day and dropped as low as 62 with the cold snap- fyi.

It seems like this approach has been very successful overall,
I am sure I have lost a bunch of fish from a collection of things from sickness to hawks to snapping turtles- life as a pond boss.
My biggest beef is how much feed they go through - 75 lbs in 5-6 weeks.

It's been alot of fun, but now with gas prices ridiculous, it costs me $40 or more to just make a run up north to feed the fish on those in-between times in the calendar etc. I will fish them out soon, and then look to stocking the typical Bass / BG combo in 2009

Oh- my practice was to aerate all year via the thermostat. In the late Fall when pond temp have dropped to 58 or lower, I would change it for start when it drops below 35 and off at 38-fyi.

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Larry --

Sorry I'm late in replying-- just got busy the past few days.

The spring is usually adequate. Its flow varies seasonally. At its greatest flow it runs about 75 gallons per minute. Unfortunately, we're in another drought. The flow this afternoon was probably less than 10 gallons per minute. The only saving factor this summer has been cool nighttime temperatures.

I stocked trout first in November of 2002. I moved here in June of that year and spent the whole summer getting an education in controlling chara (with a lot of remedial lessons since then). The previous owner had stocked largemouth bass, hybrid sunfish, channel catfish and 8 grass carp (all in a 1/4 acre pond, mind you).

Well, of those species, only the hybrid sunfish were thriving. The bass were runts (called 'em my "bonsai bass"), the channel catfish were as skinny as eels and the grass carp were long past their usefulness at chara control (that ends when the grass carp hit about 20" -- then they switch to more substantial materials).

I really should have done a complete take-down of the existing stock. Instead, I started a feeding program for the catfish -- which succeeded very well. Even the hybrid sunfish kind of got with the feeding regimen.

By late summer of 2002, I had the chara "under control" (ha!) and had installed an aeration system. By November the pond was looking really good -- crystal clear and very ready for trout. So, I put in 125 rainbows -- almost all 10". My goal at the outset was to at least have a winter/spring seasonal rainbow fishery for friends and family --- with the remote hope that maybe, just maybe, a few might make it through the summer.

Well, the trout didn't die in the summer of 2003 -- but I didn't know that at the time. I had asked a state biologist I know if he wanted or needed the big grass carp. He did and then came in mid-September '03 (right before Hurricane Isabel rearranged some local streams), and did some electro-shocking. To make a long story short, the grass carp gave his electrodes the slip -- but he said: "Hey, you have some really nice trout in here." What was especially neat was the dozen each browns and brook trout I had stocked in March had also made it through the summer (a drought summer at that). I've been managing primarily for trout ever since.

I put goldens in from time to time as a novelty. Children and grandkids of my friends really get a kick out of them. I don't think I've noticed any particular growth advantage over the rainbows I stock. I know now why an old hatchery worker I knew once referred to goldens as "tracer rounds" -- they're easy to spot and usually a good indicator where most of the rest of the trout are.

Regarding cages, that was part of my shopping errand at the local Lowe's today. I was looking for materials to build a small cage. They had the 3/4" PVC piping in stock; but unfortunately they were out of the three-opening corner pieces that are needed. But, yes, I hope to raise about 40 to 50 brook trout up to at least a 10" size before letting them out into the general population of the pond. I discovered last winter that seven and eight pound channel catfish remain winter active -- or at least hungry -- when small brook trout are about! -- Mike

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Hello Mike,
I see you use the thermostat for the same reason, we don't live at our pond&cabin either(someday i will). It sure has been a cool summer, we had 44 degrees on aug.13, but the trout are happy.
I guess losing fish to predators is part of it, i just saw my first Herron on the pond a few days ago, he was standing on one of the floating islands probably picking off frogs. he's probably been there before, but i didn't see him.
I'm not sure if i want to use the thermo. in the winter like you are, or just run it nonstop.
Are you planning to raise 10lb bass like Dwight in Minn.?(Aquamax with ball bearings)!!!



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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Hello Mike,
I see you use the thermostat for the same reason, we don't live at our pond&cabin either(someday i will). It sure has been a cool summer, we had 44 degrees on aug.13, but the trout are happy.
I guess losing fish to predators is part of it, i just saw my first Herron on the pond a few days ago, he was standing on one of the floating islands probably picking off frogs. he's probably been there before, but i didn't see him.
I'm not sure if i want to use the thermo. in the winter like you are, or just run it nonstop.
Are you planning to raise 10lb bass like Dwight in Minn.?(Aquamax with ball bearings)!!!


Aquamax with ballbearings?! Good one!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/19/12 09:44 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Mike,
That's a real good sign when your brook trout don't have a problem getting thru the summer. I don't know anything about chara, but what can you do to control it?, would horizontal water flow help.(like using a trolling motor,or pump? I'm lucky I don't have any problems with weeds.
You mentioned having 23" rainbows, they must have been fairly heavy, did you weigh any of them?, and do you think the golden trout are more susceptible to predation?, i read that somewhere.
Good luck with your cage, are you using plastic netting?, I bought some at lowes this spring, and made fish traps with it. -- Larry



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Cecil,
I probably shouldn't have made that comment i don't know anything about raising Bass, but it will be interesting to watch this wager.



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AP,

Chara is really difficult to control. I remove it periodically with a weed rake. It spreads by fragmentation and loves well water! It looks like a vascular plant but is really a form of algae. However it does produce oxygen and it absorbs nutrients. It also make it more likely your pond will be crystal clear as it not only absorbs nutrients it keeps the pond from being stirred up as it is so dense.

I found if you don't have Chara you can have filamentous algae so it's a lesser of two evils. Alledgedly I can use copper products on it because my water is so hard and it won't hurt the trout, but I don't want to take the chance. I've found the copper products are not that effective in my hardwater anyway. Even the chelated copper like Cutrine plus.

Here's wheelbarrow full I raked out of a pond:




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I'll have to disagree with you Cecil. That's a wheelbarrow Over Full !
I think that is what I have a start of in my pond. It is the only reason I still have some FH's left. They hide in it. Your opinion .. should I get rid of it?


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Well my test is complete. I removed my packed column to remove built up iron on the plastic media and reinstalled it. (I use muriatic acid and water). Anyway, with the water just dumping into the pit below from the well through some plastic cage material (to keep out debris and animals) -- without the packed column -- D.O. is 5.5 mg/l or about 50 percent saturation. Of course after it flows downhill underground through a 4 inch PVC pipe and it goes up the upturned elbow and dumps into the trout pond it is probably a little bit higher.

Photo showing pit (disregard packed column)





After reinstalling the packed column in the photo below, D.O. jumps to 9 mg/l and just over 80 percent saturation. The tests were done with a LaMotte manual test vs. my D.O. meter. D.O. meter apparently does need some work as not only did it have problems calibrating with know mg/l, it is off in % saturation. I used "Rawson's nomagram of oxygen saturation" to calculate % saturation.



Here's a look at the top of the packed column where the well flow drops into. The top bucket is only half full of plastic media and has a homemade distribution plate to evenly distribute the flow through the holes through the packed media.

View of distribution plate installed:



Water dropping through distribution plate in half media filled top bucket.




Side view of the same thing:



Note the plastic coated wire cable used to reinforce the handle connection on the top bucket. This is important, as although initially the packed column is quite light, eventually as iron builds up on the media and buckets, the entire apparatus becomes quite heavy.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/19/08 04:40 PM.

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 Originally Posted By: Ric Swaim
I'll have to disagree with you Cecil. That's a wheelbarrow Over Full !
I think that is what I have a start of in my pond. It is the only reason I still have some FH's left. They hide in it. Your opinion .. should I get rid of it?


Just a start in my small ponds too! In my 1/10th acre trout pond I can easily remove 30 wheelbarrows of this stuff twice a year!

IMHO is you will NEVER get rid of it totally. I remove mine because it decomposes and builds up, and could eventually fill in the pond over a period of a few years. I also am concerned that it will raise the temp of the trout pond a little as it creates shallow water along the edges by filling in space. And if it is really prolific(which it is in my trout pond) it could use more oxygen at night than it produces during the day?

I have also found if it is really dense when fish out time comes, the large trout will sometimes go down into it and break off.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/19/08 05:27 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,
I'm glad i don't have chara, i've got enough problems. would any of those products that shade the water help control it, or can it harm the fish?
That packed column really seems to work, and worth the effort to anyone using well water.
If you get tired of raising trophy fish i guess you could raise trophy waterfowl, they love chara. (maybe a 10lb. wood duck).



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 Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Cecil,
I'm glad i don't have chara, i've got enough problems. would any of those products that shade the water help control it, or can it harm the fish?
That packed column really seems to work, and worth the effort to anyone using well water.
If you get tired of raising trophy fish i guess you could raise trophy waterfowl, they love chara. (maybe a 10lb. wood duck).


It could get expensive continually apply a "shade product" due to the flow through nature of my pond. I run through about 60,000 gallons of water through the pond in 24 hrs. and the pond is only 100,000 gallons.

Do ducks really like Chara? I've never seen any eat it on my ponds.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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