Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Confessions of a pond building newbie

I'm not a complete newbie, at least anymore, but close. About 2 years ago I purchased a cattle ranch east of Denver near Strasburg, CO. The place had great potential water rights, there are 5 aquifers to tap into, and is along the Kiowa creek. The creek runs only a few weeks a year, or in big rain events, but from the looks of things it has been a long time since that happened here in Colorado, more than 7 years or so.

Anyway, I built two ponds, one just where I wanted it to be, near the house, and shaped perfectly to suit my obsession, training field trial retrievers. The second pond situated on a hill side about 1/2 mile away where we had found some B+ clay. I did soil testing all over the 520 acre farm, evaluated the soils samples with Terracon, and found the best spot with the best clay. We excavated the big pond by the house, about 4 surface acres, and for about 25 AF of water. We overexcavated the pond by two feet to allow for the clay liner to be added. We dug and moved 14,000 cy of clay from the upper pond to the big pond, compacted it along the way, and began filling. That went on for months, when I finally contacted Seepage Control, Inc. who I had been speaking with from before I began the process. I liked what they had to say, but thought I could just throw water at the almost good enough clay long enough that it would seal up. I'm sure it will seal at some point, but its not tightening up quick enough for me, so now to Plan B, or more like G.

Confession #1:
If you're thinking about building a pond, and you have a concern, trust your instinct, its probably worse than you think. I didn't. I talked myself into the best case scenario at every step, and could have saved my self a bunch of money by doing it right the first time.

Anyway, rather than furthering my mistake I called Seepage Control and signed them up to do a waterborne application in the big pond, and their spray on application to the upper pond, its about 2 surface acres and 10 AF of water. Bottom line, the spray on worked incredibly well, the pond is a bathtub. The big pond not so much, the ESS-13 waterborne helped, but I'm still losing 200 GPM, and with the water being pumped from 2 wells, one at 400 feet, the other at 1100 feet, I'm spending almost $2500 per month on my power bill just to pump water.

Confession #2:
I knew when I did the waterborne application that I probably should have just sucked it up and done the spray on, but talked myself into it.

Confession #3:
I was, and still am, an avid pond boss reader, but chose to read what I wanted to read into many of the posts. There are no shortcuts.

Now, I realize I'm trying to create a waterfront experience where God didn't intend one to be, but I'm getting close. I'm going to repeat the process for the first pond that worked so well on the second pond. So, now I'm about to start draining the big pond, after spending 9 months trying to get it full, and yes, of course, I stocked the darn thing with 1500 BG, 25,000 FHM and 200 trout (They will be moved to the upper pond as we drain)I'm then going to compact, use the ESS-13 spray on material and get it done right.

For what its worth, and I'm not on the Seepage Control payroll, but the folks there have been great to work with, and the spray on really has worked well. I've read a bunch of posts about guys thinking about using it, but not found any who have. Its pricey, but when you dealing with expensive water like I am its worth the upfront cost. or so I've found.

So there, I hope there is some guy out there just getting started who will benefit from my hard learned lessons.

I do have a few questions for EWest, Theo and the guys.
1. We get wind, big wind, and part of my problem has been the erosion around the edges that has chewed away at my liner. What can I do about that? I think I need to do something to slow erosion until the new grass takes hold.
2. What is the right shape of the shoreline in section? 3:1? Even that erodes with enough wind, I've got 12 - 16 inch mini cliffs around the pond in some areas. It seems that to really deal with erosion I need to be more like 1:12 or 2:12?
3. The good news is that my dam held. It is big, or should I say wide, as I graded it to blend into the natural contours around the site. I did not build a key into it, and have chosen to create the seal on the bottom/sides itself. Remember, this is Colorado's version of clay, not the real deal like many of you have elsewhere, there is some sand in this stuff. Do you think that is a mistake? If I'm going to use the spray on do you think I should cut in a key?



If someone can give me some instructions I'll post some photos of the progress of the last year, and continue to as I move through the "fix" over the next few months.


Brad Buchanan
Denver, Co

Hey, Bucky.

1) Some erosion threads that may help. I included some good grass palnting info, if you did a good job they will be moot.
Otto Quote : "Anything that will slow the waves down will (help)." - riprap (might want to consider for longterm protection on areas that are most erodable or are critical to integrity of the dam), hay bales, brushs, etc.
hydroseeding
sandy banks, geotextile cloth
burlap/mulching

3. The keyway in a dam isn't just to waterproof it, it also serves to lock the dam physically into the ground it sits on, so that the weight (pressure) of the water in the pond doesn't push the dam downhill. A more massive dam is less likely to be pushed; the deeper the water is, the more it will push the dam. The answer to the question of whether a dam will slide with or without a core requires soil knowledge & engineering, or perhaps good seat of the pants experience with someone who knows the soils.

Bucky
Great to have you on board. We are always looking for stories like yours. Please keep us posted on the success of ess13.

You will have wind erosion problems as long as you have wind.

A quick story; 3 years ago we put rip rat along the eroded side of a lake for AL MC NATT. Last Friday we looked the project over and the rocks where hardly visible, they had been covered with grass, and weeds the problem has been taken care of and it almost looks natural.

The wind erosion problem will be easy and cheep compared to the seepage problem.

send pictures

Otto

Theo,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm trying to stay away from riprap as the pond is used most often for dog training and the rocks are a problem for them getting in and out of the water. I like the idea of placing some hay bales where the shoreline is most likely to face the predominant winds, out of the NW here in Colorado. That could do the trick until the seeding takes hold. Burlap could do it too.

I have another question for you. The pond is leaking approximately 200 GPM and I suspect it is mostly on the sides caused by less quality control on the multi-curved shoreline, and the seemingly difficult concept for my scraper and bucket operators to understand that I wanted 2 feet of clay cover and that meant that at a 3:1 slope that was a 6 foot horizontal dimension. I drew it multiple times, and got them to shoot it a few times, but in the end I don't think the cover was there that I wanted, and with the erosion, ergo, leaking pond. All that said, the bottom could be the problem too. If there is one thing I've learned about this science/religion of pond building is that it is indeed both. Anyway, I'm thinking of letting the pond drain to various levels and see if the gpm of leakage reduces. The thought is that if I can get some verification that the sides are the major problem I wouldn't have to drain it completely, deal with transplanting the fish, expense, etc. But, I know that hydraulic pressure adds to the problem and if it slows as the water goes down, either slows some or slows a bunch, could this give me enough comfort to try and re-work the sides and not the entire pond? I know the most conservative approach is to do the entire pond, but it very well could be a wasted effort if the problem is all or mostly in the sides. Seepage Control is divided so far on this concept. I'm going to do the calcs as it goes down regardless, my thinking is to see if I get a dramatic reduction at some key level that will significantly point to the problem, but if it just keeps going down I'll do the whole pond seal over.

Any thoughts on this? I really don't want to just mess with the sides and 2 months from now be back on this page with another confession, that I should have drained the whole thing.

Otto,

Thanks. Is there a thread somewhere with directions on how to post pictures on a thread?

Archive thread on posting photos

Bucky, welcome!

Do you recall if you had any springs in the pond? They will most certainly be a drain source unless it is a pressurized artesian spring. With the proper methods they can be vent tubed to stop the drain effect.

Just food for thought.....

Rainman,

Can you explain "vent tubed" in some more detail?
I have a small spring in my pond basin that I'm concerned about.
My pond is small - about 0.4 acre - and just started to fill. So far, I have about 3.5 feet of water. Not too bad considering I just have a small spring feeding it.

I'm getting near the seepage point in the basin that has me a bit concerned though.

Scott

Rainman,

No, there are no springs anywhere near the pond. My update is that I've identified that the leak is occurring at the upper edges of the pond. Once the level dropped about 8 inches or so, the leaking slowed significantly, from 1 1/2 inches per day to 1/2 inch per day. I'm considering using the ESS-13 spray-on application on the upper edges and seeing what that does for me. It looks like the ESS-13 waterborne applications I did 60 days ago have worked well on the rest of the pond.